What will happen to National now?

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#2997706 18-Nov-2022 06:34

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/its-a-joke-nationals-youth-offender-military-academy-idea-slammed-by-experts/OWJJJV2GTFFZPM7YBSAIYSBK3M/

Some experts saying Luxon's boot camp idea isn't going to be helpful. I guess it does sound good on paper, but in practice it's probably quite different.

It's trash and the only likely outcome is more organised and resourceful kids who still have all the same social pressures to commit crimes.

So disappointed that this election is basically turning into the 2005 one all over again.

GV27

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#2997707 18-Nov-2022 06:39

gzt: In contrast to the earlier opinion article this NZHerald article is fairly clear on the covid association and several other factors:
NZHerald: Covid 19 Omicron: School attendance rates in term 2 plummet to 40 per cent amid wave of sickness: The number of children regularly attending school plummeted to a record low of 40 per cent in term 2 as Covid-19 ripped through the country. It comes as a major report lands today showing attendance rates here are much lower than in comparable countries with “hugely concerning” findings according to sector representatives calling for urgent fixes.
It is a substantial well researched article in contrast to the earlier opinion page and definitely worth a read.

From that link:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/education-review-office-report-finds-poor-school-attendance-parents-views-on-missing-class/PJMHO2A4SVCULDSKKSN7NWOSCY/

The report, Missing Out: Why Aren’t Our Children Going to School?, said even missing two days of class per term was linked to lower achievement.

It found families were keeping children home due to illness, but also because they were tired, in poor mental health, or being bullied.

It recommended schools stress the importance of regular attendance, alert parents when children were not attending, and make school more enjoyable.

I note Hipkins seems to much more reluctant to pin the blame on Covid.

I have a lad who will be of school age in a few years, I'm terrified that we may still be fighting the same battles in three years time.

BlakJak

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#3002005 27-Nov-2022 11:39

Both of my kids have missed more than a few days of school this year, because we followed good practice and kept them home when they were sick, screw us, right?

The impact that missing school has will vary on the age, stage of curriculum, whether any effort is put into catch-up, etc... but public health is important too.

My kids are 13 and 17 and are both high achievers so to be honest, I feel we did the right things when we needed to and it hasn't cost them in any significant way.

No signature to see here, move along...

networkn

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#3002814 28-Nov-2022 20:59

BlakJak: Both of my kids have missed more than a few days of school this year, because we followed good practice and kept them home when they were sick, screw us, right? The impact that missing school has will vary on the age, stage of curriculum, whether any effort is put into catch-up, etc... but public health is important too. My kids are 13 and 17 and are both high achievers so to be honest, I feel we did the right things when we needed to and it hasn't cost them in any significant way.

Same here, but then our kids haven't missed THAT much school. Truancy is an issue, and perhaps Act aren't quite on the money with their policy, but something more proactive needs to be done to get these kids back to school.

It's not a coincidence that there is much higher youth crime right now and fewer kids in school.

gzt

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#3002817 28-Nov-2022 21:31

networkn: It's not a coincidence that there is much higher youth crime right now and fewer kids in school.

The claims of higher youth crime are an outright falsehood as far as I can work out.

gzt

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#3002818 28-Nov-2022 21:34

BlakJak: Both of my kids have missed more than a few days of school this year,

Similar here. I'd guess several weeks away from school consumed by isolation and things related to that.

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networkn

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#3002820 28-Nov-2022 21:40

gzt:
networkn: It's not a coincidence that there is much higher youth crime right now and fewer kids in school.

The claims of higher youth crime are an outright falsehood as far as I can work out.

ROFL.

gzt

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#3002823 28-Nov-2022 22:02

RNZ: Luxon said the pandemic was no excuse [!] and was open to the idea of legislation, similar to the United Kingdom, where parents could face fines if they let children skip school in term time.

Luxon to me sounds really ranty on this topic. Personally don't know the UK legislation but I do know a couple in UK who sought permission in plenty of time to take their seven year old out of school very last week of term to start a family related visit overseas. Permission denied. It sounds inflexible and silly like a lot of things in the UK.

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#3002827 28-Nov-2022 22:14

networkn: It's not a coincidence that there is much higher youth crime right now and fewer kids in school.

Luxon is trying to connect the dots in the mind of the public without evidence. Ram raids are highly visible evidence of crime. Involvement of youth in ram raids has clearly increased for the period of concern. This is not itself evidence of increased youth crime. Overall the youth crime statistics are lower and decreasing. That does not suit the narrative Luxon is attempting to construct for the purpose of winning an election.

networkn

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#3002830 28-Nov-2022 22:31

gzt:
networkn: It's not a coincidence that there is much higher youth crime right now and fewer kids in school.

Luxon is trying to connect the dots in the mind of the public without evidence. Ram raids are highly visible evidence of crime. Involvement of youth in ram raids has clearly increased for the period of concern. This is not itself evidence of increased youth crime. Overall the youth crime statistics are lower and decreasing. That does not suit the narrative Luxon is attempting to construct for the purpose of winning an election.

We have two close family friends who are police officers in Auckland and Christchurch and I play squash with a youth police advocate officer and they would strongly disagree that youth crime is on the decline. If you think all these kids away from school are at home reading and playing Mario carts and tending their parents gardens I have a bridge going for a good price you may be interested in. I have personally witnessed and intervened in youth harrassing a shop owner in the past 2 months.

I have never felt like the country is full of More unhappy negative people and youth mental health has take a real beating in the past few years and there aren't many positive experiences for that to rebuild from. It's really grim. Kids need to be in school I am strongly in favour of iniatives that promote that.

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#3002883 28-Nov-2022 22:52

I can agree with initiatives that promote school attendance. The way Luxon is approaching potential improvements is very unattractive to me. Luxon's recent connect the dots ranting is only going to generate any similarly bad policy connected to it.

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#3002884 28-Nov-2022 22:55

gzt: I can agree with initiatives that promote school attendance. The way Luxon is approaching potential improvements is very unattractive to me. Luxon's recent connect the dots ranting is only going to generate any similarly bad policy connected to it.

Well we disagree over the severity of his 'ranting' which sounds more like you wouldn't agree with anything he suggested. It certainly beats doing SFA which is what Labour have offered to date.

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#3002893 29-Nov-2022 00:06

networkn:

We have two close family friends who are police officers in Auckland and Christchurch and I play squash with a youth police advocate officer and they would strongly disagree that youth crime is on the decline. If you think all these kids away from school are at home reading and playing Mario carts and tending their parents gardens I have a bridge going for a good price you may be interested in. I have personally witnessed and intervened in youth harrassing a shop owner in the past 2 months.

I have never felt like the country is full of More unhappy negative people and youth mental health has take a real beating in the past few years and there aren't many positive experiences for that to rebuild from. It's really grim. Kids need to be in school I am strongly in favour of iniatives that promote that.

You may (or may not) be right about this, but you are not presenting a coherent argument to support it. Citing anecdotal experience does not prove anything. A quick Google search turns up many studies and other results that all agree on a substantial drop in youth crime. Just because you 'feel' something or a police officer you play squash with thinks something does not make it so. A claim like you are making has to be backed up by actual research and you know that.

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#3002907 29-Nov-2022 07:31

Rikkitic:

networkn:

We have two close family friends who are police officers in Auckland and Christchurch and I play squash with a youth police advocate officer and they would strongly disagree that youth crime is on the decline. If you think all these kids away from school are at home reading and playing Mario carts and tending their parents gardens I have a bridge going for a good price you may be interested in. I have personally witnessed and intervened in youth harrassing a shop owner in the past 2 months.

I have never felt like the country is full of More unhappy negative people and youth mental health has take a real beating in the past few years and there aren't many positive experiences for that to rebuild from. It's really grim. Kids need to be in school I am strongly in favour of iniatives that promote that.

You may (or may not) be right about this, but you are not presenting a coherent argument to support it. Citing anecdotal experience does not prove anything. A quick Google search turns up many studies and other results that all agree on a substantial drop in youth crime. Just because you 'feel' something or a police officer you play squash with thinks something does not make it so. A claim like you are making has to be backed up by actual research and you know that.

We don't even bother reporting minor crime these days, we know the police will not do anything, so what's the point.

GV27

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#3002909 29-Nov-2022 07:33

Rikkitic:

You may (or may not) be right about this, but you are not presenting a coherent argument to support it. Citing anecdotal experience does not prove anything. A quick Google search turns up many studies and other results that all agree on a substantial drop in youth crime. Just because you 'feel' something or a police officer you play squash with thinks something does not make it so. A claim like you are making has to be backed up by actual research and you know that.

Yea, a 'quick Google' gives me this:

Oranga Tamariki youth justice system director Ben Hannifin said while overall youth crime was trending down there had been a spike over the past year.

They had seen a 14 per cent increase in police proceedings - including 24 per cent increase for those aged under 13 and 11 per cent for 14-17 year olds.

Auckland was a "specific concern", as was a spike in more serious, violent offending - including ram raids, he said.

Also, the study 'a quick google' shows up seems to be based on finalised charges being on the decline, when the reality is we have alternative interventions separate to the courts for young people for minor offending that wouldn't be showing up as 'finalised charges'.

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