At the moment www.nzfirst.nz goes to nothing, with 404 on all its pages.

I don't even get 404, just a blank page. Odd that Winston usually has so much to say.

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

Why would any side negotiate in any meaningful way without understanding whether NZF were required? The negotiations would not remain confidential after the government was formed and would just have been a rod for everyones back if NZF were not required.

 

Because it's Winston Peters. Chris Luxon may not know Winston Peters (though I bet he sure wishes he had by now) but as Paddy said, "He's Winston Peters!" Like, the Winston Peters famous for being the picture next to the definition of the word "capricious" in the dictionary. With the possible exception of Shane Jones, the rest of NZF seem like reasonably sensible people. But Winston is perfectly capable of inventing a new policy on the spot to thwart you just because you pissed him off.

Luxon could have saved himself a lot of time and angst by talking to Winston first thing the next morning - and then ditching him later in the unlikely event he wasn't going to be needed.

Meh, I'm sure the master of mergers & acquisitions will put Winston in his rightful place.

Handle9: 

Why would Winston be interested in negotiating before knowing the result? If they need him they aren’t going anywhere.

Same reason why anyone in their 80s is still running a cult of personality? Because they want everyone to remember they're in charge. Besides, even if he did tell them to come back later, he'd love the gesture. You're on his good side.

SaltyNZ:

 

Handle9: 

Why would Winston be interested in negotiating before knowing the result? If they need him they aren’t going anywhere.

 

Same reason why anyone in their 80s is still running a cult of personality? Because they want everyone to remember they're in charge. Besides, even if he did tell them to come back later, he'd love the gesture. You're on his good side.

 

Riiiight. I think you're grasping at straws on this one.

Handle9:

 

 

 

Riiiight. I think you're grasping at straws on this one.

 

No. The election result is about numbers. The numbers spoke Oct 14. But personalties rule. Luxon is weak. Seymour is smart. Peters is as savvy as you can get.

Cult of personality is quite correct.

tdgeek:

 

Handle9:

 

 

 

Riiiight. I think you're grasping at straws on this one.

 

 

No. The election result is about numbers. The numbers spoke Oct 14. But personalties rule. Luxon is weak. Seymour is smart. Peters is as savvy as you can get.

 

Cult of personality is quite correct.

 

The election result was released on the 3rd of November. The numbers on the 14th of October were preliminary results and different to the 3rd of November results.

Handle9:

 

 

 

The election result was released on the 3rd of November. The numbers on the 14th of October were preliminary results and different to the 3rd of November results.

 

Correct

122 seats, NAT/ACT had 61. The 1/2 million votes left to be accounted for favour the left historically. Technically it "could" go either way, but everyone knew it would not

tdgeek:

 

Handle9:

 

 

 

The election result was released on the 3rd of November. The numbers on the 14th of October were preliminary results and different to the 3rd of November results.

 

 

Correct

 

122 seats, NAT/ACT had 61. The 1/2 million votes left to be accounted for favour the left historically. Technically it "could" go either way, but everyone knew it would not

 

Right. So Luxon has dinner with Peters and they have general discussions with him and Seymour before the result was certified. They negotiate now that the result is certified. I'm struggling to see how this is a failure by Luxon unless you are a partisan.

Handle9:

 

Right. So Luxon has dinner with Peters and they have general discussions with him and Seymour before the result was certified. They negotiate now that the result is certified. I'm struggling to see how this is a failure by Luxon unless you are a partisan.

 

If you wish to defend Luxon thats fine. Everyone has a bias. But we will have a strong and stable Government. And inflation will get sorted, as well as infrastructure, health, unaffordable housing and education. Im all for that

tdgeek:

 

Handle9:

 

Right. So Luxon has dinner with Peters and they have general discussions with him and Seymour before the result was certified. They negotiate now that the result is certified. I'm struggling to see how this is a failure by Luxon unless you are a partisan.

 

 

If you wish to defend Luxon thats fine. Everyone has a bias. But we will have a strong and stable Government. And inflation will get sorted, as well as infrastructure, health, unaffordable housing and education. Im all for that

 

He's being attacked for things that don't make much sense. I don't like Luxon but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see what actually happens. Most of the criticism now is pretty dumb.

Handle9:

 

He's being attacked for things that don't make much sense. I don't like Luxon but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see what actually happens. Most of the criticism now is pretty dumb.

 

I dont see it as dumb at all. From day one he has spouted cool things he will so, which then are walked back over and over. Then he went quiet, clearly educated by those with some modicum of political experience. Now we get scripted responses to everything. The campaign was rife with that. Not many words, but the same words over and over. Now we get that with the negotiations. Strong and stable government, and over and over again. Ive not come across anyone who is that shut off from reality. Peters is radical but smart. Seymour, arguably more radical bit also smart. Sorry, but Luxon doesnt rate on that meter. He has a party with not a lot more than 1/3 the vote, Peters will take his slice and Seymour has clearly shown he will too. Arguably, they both deserve that, thats democracy at work

tdgeek:

 

I dont see it as dumb at all. From day one he has spouted cool things he will so, which then are walked back over and over. Then he went quiet, clearly educated by those with some modicum of political experience. Now we get scripted responses to everything. The campaign was rife with that. Not many words, but the same words over and over. Now we get that with the negotiations. Strong and stable government, and over and over again. Ive not come across anyone who is that shut off from reality. Peters is radical but smart. Seymour, arguably more radical bit also smart. Sorry, but Luxon doesnt rate on that meter. He has a party with not a lot more than 1/3 the vote, Peters will take his slice and Seymour has clearly shown he will too. Arguably, they both deserve that, thats democracy at work

 

I remember quite a bit of that during their campaign too, Luxon saying something-or-rather was National policy, then it was pointed out it wasn't, resulting in him walking back him comments a day or so later. That happened more than once. Made me think he had no clue what he was doing or saying. Now I see much more in the way of scripted responses so someone must have said something to him.

A Winston spurned is a lesson learned.