Should NZ ban the import of fossil fuel vehicles?

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Forums › Politics › Should NZ ban the import of fossil fuel vehicles?

frednz

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#255692 24-Aug-2019 07:49

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/115222259/government-considered-banning-fossil-fuel-vehicles

From the above:

The Government considered and rejected banning the import of fossil fuel vehicles from 2035 onward, new documents show, despite the Ministry of Transport supporting the move.

The Ministry of Transport found that banning the import of fossil fuel vehicles by 2035 would have a net $2.26 billion benefit, but the Government decided against it. Instead, we have the feebate scheme.

Now, environmental activists say the Government should have gone ahead with the move, which would have averted 27 million tonnes of CO2 emissions between 2021 and 2050, according to Transport's own preliminary cost-benefit analysis.

So, what's your point of view on this, should NZ ban the import of fossil fuel vehicles in order to meet its climate change objectives?

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#2305002 24-Aug-2019 08:03

To meet climate change objectives? No.

To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

Ge0rge

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#2305006 24-Aug-2019 08:33

SirHumphreyAppleby:
...limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

You've piqued my interest with that one - what sort of age would you suggest the cutoff be at?

Jase2985

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#2305009 24-Aug-2019 08:37

why not just implement emissions testing at WOF time?

Fred99

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#2305015 24-Aug-2019 08:48

Jase2985:

why not just implement emissions testing at WOF time?

For what purpose?

If the objective is to reduce CO2, then emissions testing at WOF time won't really tell you much at all, it's more or less just a simple equation of x litres of fuel used will produce y quantity of CO2.

Emissions testing is more about reducing (local) pollution than (global) CO2e.

Bung

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#2305017 24-Aug-2019 08:49

SirHumphreyAppleby:
To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

There limits to the supply of new vehicles. NZ is a small market so probably stands behind Australia for RHD vehicles. We were shopping for a new car recently and were told that if the available colour choice didn't suit there could be a 5 month delay. If the vehicle is a bit of a dud worldwide there'd be less trouble getting a bigger quota.

Fred99

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#2305020 24-Aug-2019 08:54

Ge0rge:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

...limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

You've piqued my interest with that one - what sort of age would you suggest the cutoff be at?

About 120 should keep vintage car enthusiasts happy.

Policy to encourage attrition of older vehicles off the road might be a good thing to do.

Legislation to ban older cars, thus penalising the poor, enthusiasts etc is politically doomed by the reaction it's designed to provoke.

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deadlyllama

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#2305037 24-Aug-2019 09:03

SirHumphreyAppleby:
To meet climate change objectives? No.

To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

That's great, but won't it drive the purchase price of vehicles up? Telling poor people they can't own cars will create a new problem.

old3eyes

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#2305038 24-Aug-2019 09:08

Bung:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

There limits to the supply of new vehicles. NZ is a small market so probably stands behind Australia for RHD vehicles. We were shopping for a new car recently and were told that if the available colour choice didn't suit there could be a 5 month delay. If the vehicle is a bit of a dud worldwide there'd be less trouble getting a bigger quota.

Maybe we should just forget about this RHD thing when it comes to EVs and also bring in LHD models. This way they would get here way faster than waiting for an Ozzy approved version.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Ge0rge

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#2305048 24-Aug-2019 09:28

Fred99:
Ge0rge:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

...limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

You've piqued my interest with that one - what sort of age would you suggest the cutoff be at?

About 120 should keep vintage car enthusiasts happy.

Policy to encourage attrition of older vehicles off the road might be a good thing to do.

Legislation to ban older cars, thus penalising the poor, enthusiasts etc is politically doomed by the reaction it's designed to provoke.

That's something I did think - there would be no more vintage / classic cars.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of dungas that need to go, but what say in 20 years, when todays new car, with it's top of the line safety etc and minimal emissions, is getting close to the age limit? Emissions might be a method, but perhaps not as simple as co2?

rb99

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#2305050 24-Aug-2019 09:36

Yes

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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sbiddle

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#2305058 24-Aug-2019 10:02

SirHumphreyAppleby:

To meet climate change objectives? No.

To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

I don't think used imports per se are the problem - but the fact that Japan has lots of poor vehicles and we love them. Having said that there aren't too many other countries that have a used vehicle market like the Japanese do.

It does seem that many new vehicles in NZ are more expensive than other countries such as Australia and I've often wondered why. Is it simply because of lower volumes (in part due to our huge market for 2nd hand imports) that higher margins are needed throughout the supply chain?

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Dingbatt

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#2305064 24-Aug-2019 10:16

Since we are effectively just peasants waiting for the crumbs when it comes to the world automotive market, I don’t believe we need to make any legal requirement and “set a date”. The new ICE vehicles simply won’t be available if the large markets have banned them. It would be just more virtue signalling.

Switching to driving on the same side of the road as most of the world is a great idea, but will probably need to wait until vehicles are all self driving to remove the human element from the equation.

Edit: Yet again a political topic masquerading in a different forum?

Edit2: Oh, the mods have moved it from the transport thread. Disregard edit 1.

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afe66

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#2305065 24-Aug-2019 10:18

?smaller market. Lots of second hand cars that are good enough. Car yards put up prices to make enough from those who insist on buying new.

alasta

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#2305106 24-Aug-2019 10:28

deadlyllama:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

To meet climate change objectives? No.

To improve the age and condition of our vehicle fleet? Yes. A better approach, which wouldn't require waiting another 16 years, would be to ban the import of used vehicles and limit the age of vehicles on our roads.

That's great, but won't it drive the purchase price of vehicles up? Telling poor people they can't own cars will create a new problem.

It would work well alongside other initiatives to improve public transport, car sharing, increasing housing density, etc.

Old poorly maintained used imports have astronomical operating costs, and it seems crazy to me that people are incurring those cost while struggling to feed their kids and put a roof over their heads.

frednz

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#2305120 24-Aug-2019 10:44

Dingbatt:

Edit: Yet again a political topic masquerading in a different forum?

Edit2: Oh, the mods have moved it from the transport thread. Disregard edit 1.

Well, there are so many topics that have some political aspects to them. But doing this has completely spoiled this thread IMHO, and it is a good one for open discussion because climate change and its implications goes way beyond political considerations.

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