'Forced' tipping by EFTPOS

Please note this sub-forum does not provide professional finance advice. You should seek advice from a licensed financial advisor.

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification.

If investing please consider our affiliate link for new accounts: Sharesies.

Forums › Finance and wealth management › 'Forced' tipping by EFTPOS

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

11925 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9675

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3198864 22-Feb-2024 20:48

elpenguino:
Thing is, if you vent annoyance about begging for donations or any other policies, it's not the person you're dealing with who thought up that bright idea.

Can you be ar*ed demanding 'to speak to the manager' ?

But yeah, this tipping thing, it's for the birds.

If 25% of customers complained to the person serving them and/or posted on the companies social media accounts the problem would go away quickly.

If you think something sucks say so. If you say nothing you are in effect accepting it.

tweake

2641 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1137

#3198865 22-Feb-2024 20:53

Handle9:

If 25% of customers complained to the person serving them and/or posted on the companies social media accounts the problem would go away quickly.

If you think something sucks say so. If you say nothing you are in effect accepting it.

i guess you don't work residential.

people rarely complain, they vote with their feet. they don't come back and they tell 20 other people about it.

Handle9

11925 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9675

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3198869 22-Feb-2024 21:11

tweake:

Handle9:

If 25% of customers complained to the person serving them and/or posted on the companies social media accounts the problem would go away quickly.

If you think something sucks say so. If you say nothing you are in effect accepting it.

i guess you don't work residential.

people rarely complain, they vote with their feet. they don't come back and they tell 20 other people about it.

I'm familiar with the behaviour but it doesn't make it effective.

Wheelbarrow01

1784 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2638

Trusted

Chorus

#3198898 22-Feb-2024 22:52

cokemaster:

This is becoming very common over in Aus with the introduction of American restaurant management systems + POS solutions (eg. Square).
A lot of restaurants use these table top QR codes + online ordering, with prepayment... they'll often throw in 'service fees', 'venue fees', 'credit card fees' and will prompt for tips.

Yes just before Christmas I went out to a bar/restaurant with friends and we used the QR code on the table placard to view online menus and place our orders. I got to the suggested tip page before I could place my order. Yea right - like I am going to tip for service when I haven't yet received any service at all. At that point we had not had any interaction with a human - we'd not been greeted at the door, nor shown to a table, nor offered menus, water, cutlery etc. So there's nothing to tip for at the point of ordering.

Arbitrarily soliciting for tips is a real turn off, doubly so before any service is actually received. I have no problem tipping - and tipping well - in other countries where staff rely on those tips to live. Those workers generally make a lot of effort to be pleasant and attentive as a result. NZ has well defined labour laws and minimum wages so it is not one of those places where tipping is valued, and the generally lower level of service observed here reflects that.

Not to mention that electronic tipping via an app is essentially invisible to the frontline staff - they most likely have no way of knowing how much the business owner has received in tips, or whether the full value of the tips is even being passed on to them. It's a lot different when a staffer is bringing you a check at the end of a meal, and you add a tip to the check. That check is a written record of the tip along with the worker's name so even if you pay by card, one assumes the worker (or workers if kitchen staff share in the tips) are being fairly compensated.

gzt

18684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7824

Lifetime subscriber

#3198903 22-Feb-2024 23:07

I pressed "no" or zero on one of these prompts a few weeks ago. Instant reaction because I was not expecting it and it was a shock. Although - if I'd taken some time to think it was always going to be "no". The staff were polite, the experience was ok, not remarkable, and our little group were probably not their usual kind of customer really. Also like most places in NZ I didn't feel any expectation or pressure about tipping.

K8Toledo

1018 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 311

#3198904 22-Feb-2024 23:09

Wheelbarrow01:

cokemaster:

This is becoming very common over in Aus with the introduction of American restaurant management systems + POS solutions (eg. Square).
A lot of restaurants use these table top QR codes + online ordering, with prepayment... they'll often throw in 'service fees', 'venue fees', 'credit card fees' and will prompt for tips.

Arbitrarily soliciting for tips is a real turn off, doubly so before any service is actually received. I have no problem tipping - and tipping well - in other countries where staff rely on those tips to live. Those workers generally make a lot of effort to be pleasant and attentive as a result. NZ has well defined labour laws and minimum wages so it is not one of those places where tipping is valued, and the generally lower level of service observed here reflects that.

Well said.

I lived in the US for several years, and share your sentiments.

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

Wombat1

586 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409
Inactive user

#3198914 23-Feb-2024 00:49

Big push here in Aus to bring back cash because of stuff like this. Another thing that irritates me are the card fees which seem to be getting bigger to use apple pay etc.. Then there is the donation option too at some checkouts when making payment.

scuwp

3927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2510

#3198938 23-Feb-2024 07:57

My concern with this is the 'creep'. I see the odd response to these discussions that suggest some people are OK with this in some circumstances, or justify it as a reasonable and kind thing to do because of low wages and to help people out. While an admirable thing it is to want to be kind, we are quickly moving from a no tipping culture, to a voluntary one, now to an expected one. How long until it becomes mandatory? Once the door is cracked open there is no closing it again.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

MikeAqua

8024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3818

#3198953 23-Feb-2024 08:51

I tip in the US because the tips are the main income for the serving staff, whose wages are a couple of dollars per hour. But ... it is a giant PITA.

In NZ minimum wage is 22.70, and soon to be 23.15. Unless the service is exceptional, I'm not tipping. If I am tipping, it's cash into the tip jar. I'm not paying via the EFTPOS machine to the business.

Mike

tehgerbil

1110 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 884

ID Verified

Subscriber

#3198961 23-Feb-2024 09:15

gzt:
tehgerbil: A couple myths I'd like to dispel here which will hopefully help change peoples minds defending this practise..

1 - New Zealand employers must contractually pay a base rate of minimum wage.

Wrong.

Employers may legally stipulate a subminimum wage, with the difference to be made up through employee efforts (e.g. incentives and bonuses) or boosted to minimum wage by the employer, whatever is greater.

From my personal experience:

Noel Leemings regularly employs this tactic on their sales staff

I don't doubt your personal experience of this. Can you provide any reference to show the practice you describe is legal in New Zealand?

I'll see if I can find my old employment contract! But I agree - I did a fair amount of Googling to confirm this was legal but nothing came up. Seemed dodgy asf at the time.

Handsomedan

7769 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7402

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3198975 23-Feb-2024 10:00

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/02/23/should-we-be-tipping-in-new-zealand/

Speaking to Breakfast this morning, restaurateur Michael Dearth said tipping culture is changing in Aotearoa.

Dearth, who owns two Auckland restaurants The Grove and Baduzzi, is from the US but has lived in New Zealand for 20 years.

Great way for him to make the most out of paying the staff the absolute least possible. Wouldn't be surprised if he saw it as a way to also line his own pockets.
If the tips go through EFTPOS, they will be company income. There'll be tax to pay and "disbursements" to extract.
How much of that "tip" will actually go to the person or people that have given you the excellent service that they are being paid for?

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale

*Gladly accepting donations...

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

Technofreak

6657 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3477

Trusted

#3198997 23-Feb-2024 10:47

Handsomedan:

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/02/23/should-we-be-tipping-in-new-zealand/

Speaking to Breakfast this morning, restaurateur Michael Dearth said tipping culture is changing in Aotearoa.

Dearth, who owns two Auckland restaurants The Grove and Baduzzi, is from the US but has lived in New Zealand for 20 years.

Great way for him to make the most out of paying the staff the absolute least possible. Wouldn't be surprised if he saw it as a way to also line his own pockets.
If the tips go through EFTPOS, they will be company income. There'll be tax to pay and "disbursements" to extract.
How much of that "tip" will actually go to the person or people that have given you the excellent service that they are being paid for?

It ain't changing for me nor is it changing I suspect for the vast majority of New Zealanders when eating out in God's Own. He's probably preying on unsuspecting overseas tourists.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Wombat1

586 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409
Inactive user

#3198998 23-Feb-2024 10:51

Wheelbarrow01:

Yes just before Christmas I went out to a bar/restaurant with friends and we used the QR code on the table placard to view online menus and place our orders.

Maybe I am old school but I really dislike restaurants that do this. Bars and pubs are fine.

I just dont fancy the idea of paying for my food before I actually see it.

MikeAqua

8024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3818

#3199020 23-Feb-2024 11:37

Handsomedan:

There'll be tax to pay and "disbursements" to extract.

How much of that "tip" will actually go to the person or people that have given you the excellent service that they are being paid for?

I hear your concerns about tips actually reaching the employees. However, tips are income and they are taxable If it's all going electronically, then yes, they will be subject to PAYE etc.

Tips shouldn't be subject to GST because it's individual income.

As far as the business is concerned there shouldn't be any company tax to pay from tips. It's not their money and it should come income in and goes out for net zero

Mike

MikeAqua

8024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3818

#3199025 23-Feb-2024 11:58

tehgerbil:

1 - New Zealand employers must contractually pay a base rate of minimum wage.

Wrong.

Employers may legally stipulate a subminimum wage, with the difference to be made up through employee efforts (e.g. incentives and bonuses) or boosted to minimum wage by the employer, whatever is greater.

II've worked in businesses where people are paid per unit of work done - piece rates, kg rates etc (e.g. fruit picking, opening scallops). In those situations, we were legally required to ensure people earned minimum wage, so if their piece-rate earnings didn't hit minimum wage (e.g. a new employee, who is coming up to speed) they would be topped up to minimum wage x hours worked.

I suspect an employer that stipulates a less than minimum wage would have to top up at the end of each week/month etc, if bonuses and incentives didn't carry the employee over minimum wage.

Mike

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5