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467 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 146735 27-May-2014 17:29
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In November 2011 I used software to take my own DVD and convert it to MKV. I don't know what that software was.
Anyway it is 6,345,523,355 bytes.
Last week I used DVDFab Ripper on the same DVD and it is only 1,656,517,857 bytes.

Naturally to the untrained eye, bigger is better, but how do I know which is better?

How do I find out where the difference lies.
I like the idea of a smaller .mkv but not at the expense of quality.





PC: HP ProBook 470G1 (Windows 10 Pro), Intel NUC7I5BNH (Windows 10 Home), Dell Inspiron 7591 2n1 (Windows 10 Pro)
Net: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite-3, 3 x Grandstream GWN7610
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327 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1054476 27-May-2014 17:37
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MKV is a container that you can rip many different codecs into, you could also rip a movie with multiple different audio sources (e.g. English, Spanish, French, etc) and then select which one you want to listen to, that will add a significant amount to the size of any file.
I think you could have dvd menus etc inside one too, I've not played around with them enough to know more about that though.

I would look to find out which codec each is ripped with and what additional info is contained within, something like VLC should help you with that.

61 posts

Master Geek


  # 1054479 27-May-2014 17:40
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I use MediaInfo to quickly view the details of media files.  It'll give you an idea on what the encoding differences are.  I could be as obvious as bitrate or the particular codec used (MKV is just a container, so it could be mpeg, h264 or something else) or it could be less obvious like the frames per second, quantization or frequency of I/B frames...

Hope that helps.

 
 
 
 


310 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1054480 27-May-2014 17:41
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A smaller size doesn't necessarily mean lower quality.  Only if the codecs are the same.
DVD Fab may be using H.264 to encode the video compared to an older codec used in 2011.  H.264 will produce similar quality at smaller file sizes.  VLC media player will tell you what codec the video is, and the bitrate it was encoded at.




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Mad Scientist
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  # 1054481 27-May-2014 17:42
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bigger is not better, very small is definitely worse




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




467 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1054486 27-May-2014 17:48
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I'll try mediainfo and report back.
Thanks




PC: HP ProBook 470G1 (Windows 10 Pro), Intel NUC7I5BNH (Windows 10 Home), Dell Inspiron 7591 2n1 (Windows 10 Pro)
Net: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite-3, 3 x Grandstream GWN7610
Storage: Synology DS216play NAS, 2 x 6TB
Media: HDHomeRun Connect, 5 x Amazon FireTV, Echo, Dot, Spot, Ambi Climate
TV: 2 x Samsung H6400 55" LED TV, Panasonic TH-P50G10Z 50" Plasma TV (Great picture, no smarts, just old), DMR-PWT530GZ Blu-ray Recorder
Mobile: Samsung Galaxy Note 5, Huawei P10 Lite
Wearable: Gear S3 Frontier


622 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1054551 27-May-2014 19:27
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size is normally due to whats called bitrate. small videos in mp4 are normally bitrate 750kb/s verse xvid for similar would use no less then 1000kb/s this could be 1 pass or 2 pass encoding.. 2 pass is best and called variable bit rate.. where it changes the it between
a min and max bitrate throughout the video so if a movie has much movement and fast scenes.. it will use higher or highest bitrate
for those parts in the movie

mkv container generally has x264 codec for video and FAAC for audio.  same as mp4 normally does its an adv on the ac3 audio codec

dvdfab and other tools will compress data to fit standard DVD-r or dual layer discs.. it does that by changing the bitrate

if you want to always get the same size mp4 xvid or mkv video.. theres a freeware tool called megui you can set the szie you
want and it will work out the best bitrate for movie to fit the size you want.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/megui/

you can use adv features  or the one-click convert feature
which is want most would use.. you first setup which container and
codecs what to use and if best quality 2-pass

theres some tutorials how to use it if google about



467 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1054623 27-May-2014 21:02
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Here is the MediaInfo



and





PC: HP ProBook 470G1 (Windows 10 Pro), Intel NUC7I5BNH (Windows 10 Home), Dell Inspiron 7591 2n1 (Windows 10 Pro)
Net: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite-3, 3 x Grandstream GWN7610
Storage: Synology DS216play NAS, 2 x 6TB
Media: HDHomeRun Connect, 5 x Amazon FireTV, Echo, Dot, Spot, Ambi Climate
TV: 2 x Samsung H6400 55" LED TV, Panasonic TH-P50G10Z 50" Plasma TV (Great picture, no smarts, just old), DMR-PWT530GZ Blu-ray Recorder
Mobile: Samsung Galaxy Note 5, Huawei P10 Lite
Wearable: Gear S3 Frontier


 
 
 
 


Cloud Guru
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  # 1054634 27-May-2014 21:29
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first encoding is higher resolution, higher bitrate, and higher audio (AC3).  in this case, bigger is better.  the first encoding probably wasn't compressed either - you can configure dvdfab to copy the streams instead of compress them, or you could use different settings to get the same bitrate, resolution, and audio, and still get a smaller file.  MPEG2 generally results in bigger files than MPEG4, for example.






467 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1056689 30-May-2014 18:19
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kiwigeek1: size is normally due to whats called bitrate. small videos in mp4 are normally bitrate 750kb/s verse xvid for similar would use no less then 1000kb/s this could be 1 pass or 2 pass encoding.. 2 pass is best and called variable bit rate.. where it changes the it between
a min and max bitrate throughout the video so if a movie has much movement and fast scenes.. it will use higher or highest bitrate
for those parts in the movie

mkv container generally has x264 codec for video and FAAC for audio.  same as mp4 normally does its an adv on the ac3 audio codec

dvdfab and other tools will compress data to fit standard DVD-r or dual layer discs.. it does that by changing the bitrate

if you want to always get the same size mp4 xvid or mkv video.. theres a freeware tool called megui you can set the szie you
want and it will work out the best bitrate for movie to fit the size you want.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/megui/

you can use adv features  or the one-click convert feature
which is want most would use.. you first setup which container and
codecs what to use and if best quality 2-pass

theres some tutorials how to use it if google about


Absolutely stuck.
Put in a DVD and tried to use OneClick.
Message "This file folder cannot be used in OneClick mode"

I have downloaded Handbrake and even that cannot find the 'Source'.

But I can use Windows Explorer to navigate to the DVD> Video_TS.

DVDFab (which I am trying to replace) has no problems, reading the disk.

I thought I had enough 'savvy' to follow instructions but I am stumped.







PC: HP ProBook 470G1 (Windows 10 Pro), Intel NUC7I5BNH (Windows 10 Home), Dell Inspiron 7591 2n1 (Windows 10 Pro)
Net: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite-3, 3 x Grandstream GWN7610
Storage: Synology DS216play NAS, 2 x 6TB
Media: HDHomeRun Connect, 5 x Amazon FireTV, Echo, Dot, Spot, Ambi Climate
TV: 2 x Samsung H6400 55" LED TV, Panasonic TH-P50G10Z 50" Plasma TV (Great picture, no smarts, just old), DMR-PWT530GZ Blu-ray Recorder
Mobile: Samsung Galaxy Note 5, Huawei P10 Lite
Wearable: Gear S3 Frontier


Mad Scientist
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  # 1056700 30-May-2014 18:28
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Regs: first encoding is higher resolution, higher bitrate, and higher audio (AC3).  in this case, bigger is better.  the first encoding probably wasn't compressed either - you can configure dvdfab to copy the streams instead of compress them, or you could use different settings to get the same bitrate, resolution, and audio, and still get a smaller file.  MPEG2 generally results in bigger files than MPEG4, for example.


better is relative. video re-encoding is not as simple as putting a paper through a copier. it involves complex algorithms to convert one format to another. if you didn't need to re-encode, for example, re-mux, that is better than putting paper thru copier.

having said that, everything being re-encoded equally, of course higher bitrate is better. with the caveat you cannot add detail that wasn't there, so if your source is the limit re-encoding to a superior bitrate ain't gonna make it better.

do you need mkv?
try dvd shrink. don't re-encode, just get the video out.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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