Telecom Big Time plan trouble thread

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#305807 9-Mar-2010 23:10

It's not just you Dravid.. dont panic yet :-P

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

DravidDavid

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#305809 9-Mar-2010 23:19

I started worrying when I got a ping of 80ms three times to my Telecom router. Plugged in the other D-Link and everything seems ok now. The ping is <1 to the router, but the router IP seems to take about 5 seconds to resolve. Not sure why.

I don't know why...But I always time out on the 3rd and 4th hop. I don't know what it is...But it is definatly effecting everything I do. Browsing, gaming...everything.

doozy to the rescue?

Talkiet

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#305814 9-Mar-2010 23:38

DravidDavid: I started worrying when I got a ping of 80ms three times to my Telecom router. Plugged in the other D-Link and everything seems ok now. The ping is <1 to the router, but the router IP seems to take about 5 seconds to resolve. Not sure why.

I don't know why...But I always time out on the 3rd and 4th hop. I don't know what it is...But it is definatly effecting everything I do. Browsing, gaming...everything.

doozy to the rescue?

The high apparent pings to the local router are an artifact brough on by some particular routers... They are not real. If it's only the localrouter giving the crazy times and downstream hops are relatively normal - you can safely ignore the apparent bad times from the router.

Also, there are often hops in a traceroute that simply don't respond to ICMP. It's entirely normal to have some hops simply not respond.

On top of all that, some packet loss is unavoidable in a best efforts network - and either your TCP stack or your applications should easily be able to take care of smallish amounts of packet loss with ease. Remember when TCP was designed, networks were much less reliable than they are now, and congestion was more common - the protocol was designed to work over lossy links.

Finally, although I can't make specific comments about the Bigtime shaping, it's possible that icmp traffic may be getting dropped before more important traffic... While often a good indicator - I have seen instances where a ping test showed a bad link, but payload tests showed no real problems.

The short story is - don't blindly believe what ping or tracert tell you, it's a lot more complicated than that.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Lias

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#305835 10-Mar-2010 07:41

Talkiet:

The short story is - don't blindly believe what ping or tracert tell you, it's a lot more complicated than that.

Cheers - N

In my case at least last night it was being backed up by piss poor performance in gaming.

Things seem to have changed as of this morning though.. No packet loss anymore. Be interesting to see if it repeats itself tonight.

Pinging games.on.net [203.26.94.250] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=45
Reply from 203.26.94.250: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=45

Ping statistics for 203.26.94.250:
    Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 63ms, Maximum = 97ms, Average = 78ms

Pinging patch.everquest.com [64.37.129.60] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=148ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=153ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=145ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=156ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=146ms TTL=117
Reply from 64.37.129.60: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=117

Ping statistics for 64.37.129.60:
    Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 137ms, Maximum = 156ms, Average = 143ms

Pinging www.cybergamer.com.au [72.32.147.161] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=184ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=189ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=218ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=186ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=211ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=201ms TTL=50
Reply from 72.32.147.161: bytes=32 time=184ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 72.32.147.161:
    Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 175ms, Maximum = 218ms, Average = 189ms

System

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#305856 10-Mar-2010 08:59

I have been having problems like this a while ago and it stopped for a while and has now returned within the last week or so, Talkiet and Doozy looked into it the first time for me, not sure what came out of it the first time but once again i am unable to use the internet in the evenings as the ping is around 200-300ms. If it does it again tonight ill post some results

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Talkiet

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#305871 10-Mar-2010 09:41

System: I have been having problems like this a while ago and it stopped for a while and has now returned within the last week or so, Talkiet and Doozy looked into it the first time for me, not sure what came out of it the first time but once again i am unable to use the internet in the evenings as the ping is around 200-300ms. If it does it again tonight ill post some results

Yes please, and log another fault if pings to www.telecom.co.nz are consistently that bad at any stage during the evening. PM me the incident number again and times / copys of pings. If you could also ping the first responding hop in the tracert as well that would be great.

I know this must be frustrating but with subtle issues that don't affect a lot of customers, it can be hard to track these down, so the more accurate reports we can get the better.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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System

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#305931 10-Mar-2010 12:54

Talkiet:
System: I have been having problems like this a while ago and it stopped for a while and has now returned within the last week or so, Talkiet and Doozy looked into it the first time for me, not sure what came out of it the first time but once again i am unable to use the internet in the evenings as the ping is around 200-300ms. If it does it again tonight ill post some results

Yes please, and log another fault if pings to www.telecom.co.nz are consistently that bad at any stage during the evening. PM me the incident number again and times / copys of pings. If you could also ping the first responding hop in the tracert as well that would be great.

I know this must be frustrating but with subtle issues that don't affect a lot of customers, it can be hard to track these down, so the more accurate reports we can get the better.

Cheers - N

I will be sure to do that, will keep an eye on it tonight, i am starting to think it may be a congested exchange

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Lias

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#306026 10-Mar-2010 17:57

Evening comes and its back and worse than ever. My issue certainly isnt a congested exchange, as its only effecting international traffic, and only during peak hour. I can live with higher pings during peak but I draw the line at constant packet loss.

Ping statistics for 203.26.94.250:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 87, Lost = 13 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 64ms, Maximum = 76ms, Average = 65ms

Ping statistics for 59.167.241.91:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 89, Lost = 11 (11% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 52ms, Average = 38ms

Those were done simulteanous with this:

Ping statistics for 146.171.18.242:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 12ms

No packet loss to telecom. Issue is not at my end or between me and the telecom WAN.

Should I bother logging this as a fault given the issue clearly lies with the shaping or the global gateway network?

Talkiet

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#306028 10-Mar-2010 18:09

Lias: Evening comes and its back and worse than ever. My issue certainly isnt a congested exchange, as its only effecting international traffic, and only during peak hour. I can live with higher pings during peak but I draw the line at constant packet loss.

Ping statistics for 203.26.94.250:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 87, Lost = 13 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 64ms, Maximum = 76ms, Average = 65ms

Ping statistics for 59.167.241.91:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 89, Lost = 11 (11% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 52ms, Average = 38ms

Those were done simulteanous with this:

Ping statistics for 146.171.18.242:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 12ms

No packet loss to telecom. Issue is not at my end or between me and the telecom WAN.

Should I bother logging this as a fault given the issue clearly lies with the shaping or the global gateway network?

I'm afraid as you have pointed out, the fact that the physical layer and connection to internal servers is apparently fine, the packet loss may be a result of the shaping on the Bigtime plan. Unless someone can replicate these results on a non shaped Telecom broadband plan, there's probably not much point in logging tihis as it appears to be limited to International traffic on Bigtime.

Remember that TCP deals with packet loss pretty well... If your requirements are for a plan with really good international performance (including very low packet loss), then (and you know what I'm about to say)... There are other plans that will deliver that. Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Ragnor

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#306035 10-Mar-2010 18:38

Big Time had a similar problem with latency to AU servers in peak time last year in August. If I recall correctly it affected both UDP and TCP/IP traffic.

It was resolved after a month or so after a lot of people reported the problem.

I would say check here and gpforums to see if anyone else has the same issue, and then report it via the appropriate mechanisms.

Last time did result in a resolution, they aren't too bad at resolving obvious problems if enough people report it.

DravidDavid

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#306049 10-Mar-2010 19:32

Ragnor: Big Time had a similar problem with latency to AU servers in peak time last year in August. If I recall correctly it affected both UDP and TCP/IP traffic.

It was resolved after a month or so after a lot of people reported the problem.

I would say check here and gpforums to see if anyone else has the same issue, and then report it via the appropriate mechanisms.

Last time did result in a resolution, they aren't too bad at resolving obvious problems if enough people report it.

It seems as though many are experiencing the same issues as I am with BigTime. I'm sure a solution will be found.

Every time I call Telecom they tell me that BigTime has latency issues and to switch to another plan. So that mechanism I have almost given up on. Its up to whoever has the power here to take the issue to those higher in rank than a customer service representative.

I will still try. Maybe I will strike a more understanding rep. :)

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System

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#306053 10-Mar-2010 19:40

Lias: Evening comes and its back and worse than ever. My issue certainly isnt a congested exchange, as its only effecting international traffic, and only during peak hour. I can live with higher pings during peak but I draw the line at constant packet loss.

Ping statistics for 203.26.94.250:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 87, Lost = 13 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 64ms, Maximum = 76ms, Average = 65ms

Ping statistics for 59.167.241.91:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 89, Lost = 11 (11% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 52ms, Average = 38ms

Those were done simulteanous with this:

Ping statistics for 146.171.18.242:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 12ms

No packet loss to telecom. Issue is not at my end or between me and the telecom WAN.

Should I bother logging this as a fault given the issue clearly lies with the shaping or the global gateway network?

Here is my results from those IPs:

Ping statistics for 203.26.94.250:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 92, Lost = 8 (8% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 112ms, Maximum = 212ms, Average = 149ms

Ping statistics for 59.167.241.91:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 89, Lost = 11 (11% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 183ms, Average = 129ms

Ping statistics for 146.171.18.242:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 54ms, Maximum = 62ms, Average = 55ms

Not so much packet loss on the first one, on the second it is the same, not a big deal, the ping is a little higher but not a big difference there either. Where abouts in the country do you live? i would put the higher ping down to me living further away. Keeping an eye out for the ping problem to start but looking good so far.

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Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.

System

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#306054 10-Mar-2010 19:42

DravidDavid:
Ragnor: Big Time had a similar problem with latency to AU servers in peak time last year in August. If I recall correctly it affected both UDP and TCP/IP traffic.

It was resolved after a month or so after a lot of people reported the problem.

I would say check here and gpforums to see if anyone else has the same issue, and then report it via the appropriate mechanisms.

Last time did result in a resolution, they aren't too bad at resolving obvious problems if enough people report it.

It seems as though many are experiencing the same issues as I am with BigTime. I'm sure a solution will be found.

Every time I call Telecom they tell me that BigTime has latency issues and to switch to another plan. So that mechanism I have almost given up on. Its up to whoever has the power here to take the issue to those higher in rank than a customer service representative.

I will still try. Maybe I will strike a more understanding rep. :)

They are there, the first one i rang although he was a little short of knowledge on the plan seemed to know about networking in general and was able to understand the problems i was encountering it was just he superviser that he had to go back to that appeared to be passing on the lies.

PC: 3.3ghz Core i5-2500, 8gb DDR3, ATI Radeon 5850, 27" QHD IPS Monitor

Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.

Ragnor

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#306068 10-Mar-2010 20:45

I've found it much more effective to use the contact us form on the website to report problems than dealing with the phone operators following scripts.

http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/ask

At least this way you can include tracert/ping/screenshots that highlight the obvious problem areas.

Jaredude

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#306086 10-Mar-2010 21:48

To clarify, theres a problem with Big Time latency at the moment?
If so this *may* have solved my problems.

I'm getting severe ping problems at the moment, but also to NZ as well?

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