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maverick

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#119173 23-May-2013 09:04
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Read an article this morning in the Techday Telco review and almost choked on my coffee, Truenet have carried out some "VoIP Testing" and put the results in this months Telco Review as a feature article.

This follows on to the discussion I had with John Butt from Truenet a while ago and a follow up meeting in our offices, it seems that Truenet have decided to go ahead anyway so I will raise the same concerns again that I made in the original thread.

Original discussion here where I take issue with Truenet attempting to provide Stats on VoIP and the reasons why http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=65&topicid=100014

Since its not online here is a copy of the article.

Truenet Report VoIP

Now I take a huge amount of issue with this John, if you are reading this I wonder why you are attempting to put articles like this in the press, can you care to explain your testing methodology around these figures and in my opinion is incredibly misleading, I had some other words for it but am being semi nice here.

Can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that VoIP is "pretty good across most providers" when all you are doing is sending some automated test RTP stream from your probes to a server located in your test location (fell free to correct me here if I'm wrong,) this just testing access !!, how many hops from each probe to get to your test server from each probe location John, pretty sure that path and QOS configurations are going to be a hell of lot different to the companies VoIP offerings... your comparing apples and penguins.

How does this test VoIP for these listed providers, your article reads like you have tested the VoIP of these companies and are now telling the industry the performance of the said companies VoIP offerings.

I interconnect with a number of these carriers over dedicated QOS circuits and use RFactor for quality measurements as it gives true end to end I can tell you some of those listed your not even in the ball park, so here we are doing real life VoIP traffic with some of these carriers and in some cases have done million and millions of minutes with these carries you have mentioned here as providing "pretty good quality" I disagree based on real information so again I ask what do you base your information on ?

I am looking at  report here on a VoIP provider you list as good yet I have over a million minutes sent from them where there Rfactor barely gets above 80 in some case and below 80 is pretty common.

So I have a problem with articles like this as it seems to postion yourself as experts when it comes to the VoIP monitoring for providers, really you actually have no real way to do substantive testing of a VoIP providers network to back these statements up do you ?, I stand by the comments that all you are doing is send test packets over a access pipe to a test server, this is no way a true reflection of VoIP quality for service providers.



 
   








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ubergeeknz
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  #823974 23-May-2013 09:51
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I'm as confused as the OP.  As far as I know, Telecom, Vodafone nor Telstraclear have any VoIP offering for residential customers.  So to whom's VoIP offering are you measuring latency (and in what units, where higher is better somehow)? MOS?  These stats are totally meaningless without context and none has been given.

Zeon
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  #823980 23-May-2013 09:59
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WTF does this even mean?




Speedtest 2019-10-14


 
 
 
 


maverick

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#824016 23-May-2013 10:58
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ubergeeknz: .  So to whom's VoIP offering are you measuring latency (and in what units, where higher is better somehow)? MOS?  These stats are totally meaningless without context and none has been given.


That one cracked me up and have been  ranting in the office all morning over this Yell, how can latency over 80ms present with higher MOS values compared to the 20-30ms guys, would love to know how my network gets over 4.3 MOS when the latency is above 80ms, pretty sure my configured jitter buffers would have something to say about that and I am damn sure my customers wouldn't be getting 4.3 as a MOS score even on my own network with latency stats like that,

We make comments about media and their poor reporting of Technology in the Herald and Stuff but boy it makes it hard when we have people that have actually been in the industry producing stuff like this for them to consume, what happens if the herald or stuff print this, all its done is put Truenet's name up in lights and possibly this is their play make it sound as they know what they are doing so it may have a bearing fro them for commercial gain when looking to drum up business, incredibly poor reporting based on very poor methodology.







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JohnButt
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  #824024 23-May-2013 11:16
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Interesting that the article has not got a writer named. This is the first time I have seen the article.

To quote Maverick:
"We also see how media and the such write these types of things up, Technology writers in this country for the major papers IMHO are incredibly poor and will lock on to any press release and promote it as gospel without doing any type of research or investigation, some of the stuff they quote from the Marketing arms of company's makes me want to jump off a bridge, To be frank I can see the same thing applying here as most of these writers have absolutely no idea about a carrier grade VoIP network or how one is even put together ..."

I think I learnt a lesson here :-( (I supplied the charts)

Context is everything

ubergeeknz
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  #824036 23-May-2013 11:29
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I'd (personally) welcome Truenet reporting on some voice metrics, however they must be meaningful in terms of something the provider is offering - or it all becomes quite misleading (as this article).

It might need you to work with the industry to better understand what are meaningful metrics for measuring the quality of a VoIP service, but to be honest, it would be almost impossible to measure this from or between endpoints alone, given the way most VoIP services work.

Any chance you can share what was actually measured and how, to give these charts some context?  It seems like they must be based on some kind of data...

maverick

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  #824042 23-May-2013 11:38
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Thanks John, this shows how this type of info with out reference can be posted online... the people at Techday for a technology magazine aimed at executives have done an incredibly poor job and this magazine goes in the bin where it belongs, whoever wrote that article needs a boot in the arse to be perfectly frank.




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JohnButt
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  #824043 23-May-2013 11:38
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old3eyes
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  #824072 23-May-2013 12:33
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From what I've seen of VOIP SIP trunking in my day job it's pretty much the wild west in NZ. Our Japanese parent company likened it to 8 flavors of ISDN and none are compatible with each other..




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maverick

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  #824077 23-May-2013 12:37
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Does this mean you will ask Techday to post a clarification of this story John since they have used this info without your knowledge and really I believe my concerns are fully justified.




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maverick

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  #824079 23-May-2013 12:39
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old3eyes: From what I've seen of VOIP SIP trunking in my day job it's pretty much the wild west in NZ. Our Japanese parent company likened it to 8 flavors of ISDN and none are compatible with each other..


No argument from me on this




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antoniosk
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  #824087 23-May-2013 12:48
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maverick: Does this mean you will ask Techday to post a clarification of this story John since they have used this info without your knowledge and really I believe my concerns are fully justified.


So to paraphrase this is a non-article that has hijacked some graphs from Truenet, but the way it's written implies that it all came from Truenet?

I was reading this article yesterday as well... at least it's just a trade rag and not really read outside the industry, but I agree had it been in Stuff that would have got a lot of noise.






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maverick

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#824089 23-May-2013 12:54
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yep... but you know me Antonios I really hate it when a crappy story gets in the way of the truth Wink




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maverick

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  #824093 23-May-2013 13:01
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I would add that I see these people taking editorial licence with my industry and incorrectly reporting the facts , so I take exception to that and am happy to take people to task when misleading things are written.

Were not using the Theresa Gattung school of thought of using confusion as a chief marketing tool.


Your just poking the bear aren't you Laughing




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ubergeeknz
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  #824117 23-May-2013 13:26
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maverick:
old3eyes: From what I've seen of VOIP SIP trunking in my day job it's pretty much the wild west in NZ. Our Japanese parent company likened it to 8 flavors of ISDN and none are compatible with each other..


No argument from me on this


I don't think it's an NZ only problem, either.

antoniosk
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  #824119 23-May-2013 13:29
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maverick: I would add that I see these people taking editorial licence with my industry and incorrectly reporting the facts , so I take exception to that and am happy to take people to task when misleading things are written.

Were not using the Theresa Gattung school of thought of using confusion as a chief marketing tool.


Your just poking the bear aren't you Laughing


Of course I am!

So how is that support for every home-built yamazuka 'SIP' pbx going then? got it to the point where it just plugs in and works?

Yell




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