GCSB Protest March

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#865737 25-Jul-2013 11:42

Klipspringer:

Surely if that can happen, it will happen already based on data which is already publicly available from other places. Ie, facebook, twitter, blogs etc ... All the identity information for those sort of sites can already be requested by government. Some of it is already out there and there is no need to request anything. We have seen many cases already of the likes of google and facebook being forced to hand identity information over.

Which is why I deleted my Facebook account ages ago. I have the choice to hand over my life to Facebook -- and I choose not to -- but I don't have the choice if the government passes a law allowing them to steal it without telling me.

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#865745 25-Jul-2013 11:47

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: The question you need to ask your self is why do they or why would they collect this info. I cannot see any logical reason they would.

The reason media collect information on people like Helen Clark is simple. It makes for really interesting history.

The argument for collecting your views on polls over the next 50 years of your life is so we can spot if you're views are heading off the rails and you pose a threat to the rest of us.

Are you becoming more and more unhappy with the state and likely to start planning to blow up parliament? Will Guy Forks day become KiwiNZ day?

But the logic isn't sound.

Keeping secrets to find secrets is not the answer to stopping you from becoming "KiwiNZ day".

The real answer is open, honest, transparent engagement with you.

Why are you smoking the weed?
Why are you drinking the booze?
Why are you spending your nights on the porn?
Why don't you have a job any more?
Why doesn't your family like you any more?
Why do you only want to play computer games that kill other people?
Why do you spend your time dreaming up bombs?
Why are you the guy who doesn't seem to play nice at paint ball but wants to just punish everyone?
Why have you become isolated?
Why are you drink driving?
Why are you at the pokies all the time?
Why do you turn up at work looking like a wreck?
Why didn't you make my birthday party?

...the list could go on and on of warning signs that could suggest why we should get behind giving you some face to face love and support, not pay IT geeks millions just to spy on you.

When one goes into public life as say a Prime Minister one has to accept that you are part of history, your actions, words etc are part of what we are, were and will be. It is OK that these are recorded and a politician loves to be recorded.
As for Mr and Mrs Bloggs and KiwiNZ our lives are boring, boring, boring. The reality is we are of no importance therefore no money will be spent recording our activities.

SaltyNZ

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#865758 25-Jul-2013 11:54

KiwiNZ:

Our Parliamentary system is only in part a democracy, we vote a Government to Govern not procrastinate. What you are suggesting is paralysis.

Indeed. Can you imagine having the citizens vote over taxation? *Nobody* wants to pay tax. We all recognise it's value, and want *other people* to pay it, but whatever *we* pay, we think it's too much. The government (little 'g') would fall apart over night if we had citizens voting on *everything*.

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ajobbins

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#865764 25-Jul-2013 12:02

KiwiNZ: The reality is we are of no importance therefore no money will be spent recording our activities.

Someone better tell the NSA, because America has been doing this very thing to its citizens for years. And they are asking Mr Key to do it too.

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jeffnz

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#865775 25-Jul-2013 12:11

ok I'm getting my tin foil hat out, again

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ajobbins

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#865776 25-Jul-2013 12:14

jeffnz: ok I'm getting my tin foil hat out, again

No use, The government has technology to decode aluminium encrypted thoughts now.

You will need to wear salted hash browns on your head if you want true thought privacy.

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MikeB4

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#865780 25-Jul-2013 12:18

ajobbins:
KiwiNZ: The reality is we are of no importance therefore no money will be spent recording our activities.

Someone better tell the NSA, because America has been doing this very thing to its citizens for years. And they are asking Mr Key to do it too.

The US loves to waste money. We don't because we don't have it to waste.

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DonGould

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#865793 25-Jul-2013 12:19

ajobbins:
jeffnz: ok I'm getting my tin foil hat out, again

No use, The government has technology to decode aluminium encrypted thoughts now.

You will need to wear salted hash browns on your head if you want true thought privacy.

See this just pushes the case for taking special medication to make thoughts harder to read.

God put the medication in some of the plants but the government seem hell bent on keeping the plants from people.... though interestingly less and less so in the USA.

Good dose of the right meds and nothing in the brain makes any sense to government systems any more. ;)

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DonGould

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#865801 25-Jul-2013 12:28

KiwiNZ: The US loves to waste money. We don't because we don't have it to waste.

There's a whole other debate about money here...

But I agree with what you're saying about wasting money.

We're paying for:

* Expensive buildings in Wellington
* Filled with lots and lots of really expensive computer equipment
* Filled with really expensive staff
* To make telcos/ISPs put more really expensive stuff in their really expensive buildings
* So it can spy on us on demand
* So it can just collect meta data and store it on the really expensive computers (see above).

At the same time we have:

* People living under bridges
* People living in cars
* People living in cold moldy buildings
* People without toilets
* People without showers
* People in tents
* People in caravans
* People without proper food
* People without the right education support
* Sick people on benefits not getting help they need
* People on benefits who don't get teeth fixed because they don't feel they can afford it

The list of social issues goes on and on and on.

I could be helping build a new home for a family today, but I'm here discussing issues with you because I fear a life where the family has a nice new home but is subject to a government that spies on their every phone call or email message.

We have more than enough money, it's just about how we're choosing to spend it that's the issue.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

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#865803 25-Jul-2013 12:31

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: The US loves to waste money. We don't because we don't have it to waste.

There's a whole other debate about money here...

But I agree with what you're saying about wasting money.

We're paying for:

* Expensive buildings in Wellington
* Filled with lots and lots of really expensive computer equipment
* Filled with really expensive staff
* To make telcos/ISPs put more really expensive stuff in their really expensive buildings
* So it can spy on us on demand
* So it can just collect meta data and store it on the really expensive computers (see above).

At the same time we have:

* People living under bridges
* People living in cars
* People living in cold moldy buildings
* People without toilets
* People without showers
* People in tents
* People in caravans
* People without proper food
* People without the right education support
* Sick people on benefits not getting help they need
* People on benefits who don't get teeth fixed because they don't feel they can afford it

The list of social issues goes on and on and on.

I could be helping build a new home for a family today, but I'm here discussing issues with you because I fear a life where the family has a nice new home but is subject to a government that spies on their every phone call or email message.

We have more than enough money, it's just about how we're choosing to spend it that's the issue.

We need those they keep my wife employed :)

DonGould

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#865806 25-Jul-2013 12:34

KiwiNZ: We need those they keep my wife employed :)

Sorry I'm confused about which bits we need to keep your wife employed as I have no idea what your wife does or her skill set.

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MikeB4

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#865811 25-Jul-2013 12:38

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: We need those they keep my wife employed :)

Sorry I'm confused about which bits we need to keep your wife employed as I have no idea what your wife does or her skill set.

Sorry I should clarify. We need all the buildings in Wellington filled with computers. They also need to be upgraded each year. My wife sells computers, servers etc and IT and coms services.

I am flexible in my views on this subject I have needs :)

DonGould

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#865819 25-Jul-2013 12:56

KiwiNZ: Sorry I should clarify. We need all the buildings in Wellington filled with computers. They also need to be upgraded each year. My wife sells computers, servers etc and IT and coms services.

I am flexible in my views on this subject I have needs :)

This is the key to this problem isn't it.

There is a group of people in Wellington who need this stuff so they can life their lives with a degree of quality while others around the country suffer.

The government, or those in Wellington are just taking money from the rest of us to buy/sell equipment to do bad things for the rest of us, that's not ok.

Your wife could be selling computers to people in the whole of New Zealand to help them improve their homes, improve their education, improve their health, improve their diet.

It's about choices and we're empowering the wrong choices with this bill.

I do care about your wife having a job, I really do.

But I want your wife's job do have real meaning, real value to other people, not be a job that just makes her rich at our expense.

We need to have your wife providing IT to the community, not just to a very select group so they can spy on the rest of us suffering, getting more unhappy with our lives and planning "KiwiNZ day" events.

We need open, honest, transparent communication not a world filled with secrets which is what John Key was proposing the other day.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

ajobbins

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#865820 25-Jul-2013 12:59

KiwiNZ: The US loves to waste money. We don't because we don't have it to waste.

Who's to say they aren't funding it in return for access to the information? The government can also push a lot of the cost onto other parties. Ie. They enact a law saying that all ISPs need to keep comprehensive records about a users browsing history for x period. They push the cost burden of collection and storage onto the ISP (And ultimately to the customers), then they just access it.

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MikeB4

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#865830 25-Jul-2013 13:04

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: Sorry I should clarify. We need all the buildings in Wellington filled with computers. They also need to be upgraded each year. My wife sells computers, servers etc and IT and coms services.

I am flexible in my views on this subject I have needs :)

This is the key to this problem isn't it.

There is a group of people in Wellington who need this stuff so they can life their lives with a degree of quality while others around the country suffer.

The government, or those in Wellington are just taking money from the rest of us to buy/sell equipment to do bad things for the rest of us, that's not ok.

Your wife could be selling computers to people in the whole of New Zealand to help them improve their homes, improve their education, improve their health, improve their diet.

It's about choices and we're empowering the wrong choices with this bill.

I do care about your wife having a job, I really do.

But I want your wife's job do have real meaning, real value to other people, not be a job that just makes her rich at our expense.

We need to have your wife providing IT to the community, not just to a very select group so they can spy on the rest of us suffering, getting more unhappy with our lives and planning "KiwiNZ day" events.

We need open, honest, transparent communication not a world filled with secrets which is what John Key was proposing the other day.

She does also sell to schools, Hospitals, and numerous community organisations through out NZ. She also gives to Charities and recycles a lot of equipment to community groups.

But it is a reality of commerce based in Wellington that a lot of ones business is to Government.

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