Nazi item on Trademe?

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gzt

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#1695919 28-Dec-2016 18:14

These SS divisions were initially recruited from concentration camp guards.

I find it very hard to see items like that without having strong feelings about it. I really question if these items have any use outside the purposes of holocaust and genocide memorial.

That said, googling indicates there is no provenance for the category of stamped notes. Ie; the notes are likely to be genuine, but the stamps were added later to increase the percieved monetary value of the items.

freitasm

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#1695953 28-Dec-2016 19:21

Actually the SS started as a small protection unit, within the SD, around 1925 - many years before the "Final Solution" started. One of their divisions (the SS-Totenkopfverbände) was the one doing the camps work, but they were also created around 1934 - 35.

plod

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#1695990 28-Dec-2016 21:52

Should we also ban the sale of VW and Porsche car since Ferdinand Porsche was jailed for working for the Nazis?

Geektastic

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#1696005 28-Dec-2016 22:50

I find it hard to imagine having feelings about objects that would in any way distress me.

They'd be interesting things to own in the same way as anything else. Giving objects power is just weird. The very act of doing that gives them power they never possessed. It's like the idiotic "crime" of holocaust denial. I can deny the world is a globe, that Henry VIII had numerous wives, that William The Conqueror murdered tens of thousands or that 2+2 = 4 but since all but the lunatic among us know (or can easily find out) that these things are true, what on earth would be served by dignifying my idiocy in denying them by making it a crime to do so?

Fred99

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#1696096 29-Dec-2016 11:09

plod: Should we also ban the sale of VW and Porsche car since Ferdinand Porsche was jailed for working for the Nazis?

What's with the "we" thing?

The ban is from Trademe (and Ebay and other auction houses etc) making a decision for moral or commercial reasons - or whatever reason they like - to not allow sale of certain Nazi memorabilia.

In the context of that Nazi memorabilia - then in my opinion good on them.

One striking feature of the memorabilia that they choose to ban is the use of the swastika and/or SS logos, which are instantly recognisable symbols of a regime responsible for the slaughter of millions of innocent people. They are symbols of hatred and evil.

You could argue that Pol Pot or Stalin and others were also cold-blooded murderers, but there's not really a market for "memorabilia" or any instantly recognisable symbols, nor groups of active and violent thugs who for one reason or another choose to associate themselves with and represent themselves with symbols of those other regimes. Trademe also ban KKK paraphernalia.

This isn't IMO a debate about "political correctness". Would you like government to intervene to force a business like TM etc to allow sale of Nazi material?

True restriction of freedom are for example laws in NZ restricting wearing gang patches in Wanganui, some patches probably include swastikas, yet as much as I despise those thugs using gang symbols to intimidate, I'm not comfortable with laws which with a broad brush restrict you from wearing whatever you like in public, as that can become a slippery slope.

Hammerer

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#1696148 29-Dec-2016 12:38

plod: Should we also ban the sale of VW and Porsche car since Ferdinand Porsche was jailed for working for the Nazis?

I'm sure there are much better examples than the Volkswagen.

VW produced their military variants of the VW for the German military but didn't mass produce the classic VW until the Allied military government resurrected their factories in 1945-1949. The classic VW was initially car of the allied occupiers (mainly British military personnel) before it actually became the people's car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1945.E2.80.931948:_British_Army_intervention.2C_unclear_future

Geektastic

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#1696190 29-Dec-2016 14:35

Fred99:

plod: Should we also ban the sale of VW and Porsche car since Ferdinand Porsche was jailed for working for the Nazis?

What's with the "we" thing?

The ban is from Trademe (and Ebay and other auction houses etc) making a decision for moral or commercial reasons - or whatever reason they like - to not allow sale of certain Nazi memorabilia.

In the context of that Nazi memorabilia - then in my opinion good on them.

One striking feature of the memorabilia that they choose to ban is the use of the swastika and/or SS logos, which are instantly recognisable symbols of a regime responsible for the slaughter of millions of innocent people. They are symbols of hatred and evil.

You could argue that Pol Pot or Stalin and others were also cold-blooded murderers, but there's not really a market for "memorabilia" or any instantly recognisable symbols, nor groups of active and violent thugs who for one reason or another choose to associate themselves with and represent themselves with symbols of those other regimes. Trademe also ban KKK paraphernalia.

This isn't IMO a debate about "political correctness". Would you like government to intervene to force a business like TM etc to allow sale of Nazi material?

True restriction of freedom are for example laws in NZ restricting wearing gang patches in Wanganui, some patches probably include swastikas, yet as much as I despise those thugs using gang symbols to intimidate, I'm not comfortable with laws which with a broad brush restrict you from wearing whatever you like in public, as that can become a slippery slope.

On that basis, we should ban pirate flags...

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MikeB4

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#1696218 29-Dec-2016 15:57

It is a concern that items like this should be hidden away, not talking about a certain part of history is also a concern. The well known adage if we forget it we will repeat it.

tdgeek

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#1696222 29-Dec-2016 16:12

MikeB4:

It is a concern that items like this should be hidden away, not talking about a certain part of history is also a concern. The well known adage if we forget it we will repeat it.

I agree. There are MANY bad people that did bad things over the centuries and decades. It is still history. If nothing else, it is a reminder that this is what it was like, and it isnt now. That is what history is.

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