Article on Stuff opens a can of religious and secular worms!

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#1008891 19-Mar-2014 12:06

Klipspringer:
testha:
Klipspringer:

So you saying only scientific facts should be taught at schools?

WOW. That goes against all scientific theories then.

How about you refresh your memory about the terms you use?

A hypothesis is either a suggested explanation for an observable phenomenon, or a reasoned prediction of a possible causal correlation among multiple phenomena.

In science, a theory is a tested, well-substantiated, unifying explanation for a set of verified, proven hypotheses. A theory is always backed by evidence; a hypothesis is only a suggested possible outcome, and is testable and falsifiable.

So yes I do want proven theories be taught at school.

I was referring to KiwiNZ's post about the big bang theory. We can't have "lessons" about the Big bang at schools but deny discussions about religion. In his example the teacher teaches the class' "A lesson on the origins of the universe". But when the pupil mentions a God, she tells the student to take that conversation home. Jaxson summed it up nicely, all these subjects should be wrapped up in 'No one really knows' tape.

But you right about scientific theories. Some are in proven, yet well sustained and we accept them as accurate. But at the end of the day, they all just theories.

Theories that each day are being proven correct or amended. When science is wrong it adjusts to be correct. When religion is wrong they just deny it. Whats the argument anyway, Its based on a book written by a king 100's of years ago. Might as well be reading the likes of twilight.

*cough cough* 1000th post. Now 200 +1 and i get a subscription.

sxz

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#1008893 19-Mar-2014 12:09

I put this together quickly in Excel using Census Data. Thought you guys might find it interesting. Over 120 Religions in NZ

MikeB4

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#1008894 19-Mar-2014 12:09

Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Jaxson:
KiwiNZ: I feel the teaching of different belief structure should be along the lines of eg

This is brief and probably not correct but I use it for example only please don't shoot me...

A lesson on the origins of the universe

Teacher; there are this e who subscribe to the bing bang theory for the creation of the universe, the beginning being a singularity that resulted in a 'big bang' event.... blah blah

Pupil; are there any other ideas?

Teacher; yes there are, one is that the universe was created by a deity or god.

Pupil; where and who is this god?

Teacher; you need to discuss those ideas with you parents and they could take you somewhere to learn more of this.

Learning is about opening the mind and the world around us, therefore opposing ideas should not be hidden but discussed in a non emotional non biased basis.

By that approach the Scientific explanation should not be taught either, and the whole subject should be wrapped up in 'No one really knows' tape, whilst we move onto spelling, gramma and reading about what 'grazing ones knees' was like - back before the playground was wrapped in spongy rubber padding, all equipment was lowered to a max of 10cm high and we doused ourselves in hand sanitizer every 10 minutes whilst playing a computer game of soccer because no one wanted to use the playing field outside because there was a chance the sun might come out from behind that cloud over there....

You missed my point, my idea is that all theories should be advised of in a non emotional method and not professing that any are correct or incorrect, what we know about the Universe and it's origins can be summed up in a teaspoon.

So you saying only scientific facts should be taught at schools?

WOW. That goes against all scientific theories then.

I am pretty sure i said theories, as for scientific facts they are for now, based on the sum of knowledge up to now.

MikeB4

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#1008895 19-Mar-2014 12:10

Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ: I feel the teaching of different belief structure should be along the lines of eg

This is brief and probably not correct but I use it for example only please don't shoot me...

A lesson on the origins of the universe

Teacher; there are this e who subscribe to the bing bang theory for the creation of the universe, the beginning being a singularity that resulted in a 'big bang' event.... blah blah

Pupil; are there any other ideas?

Teacher; yes there are, one is that the universe was created by a deity or god.

Pupil; where and who is this god?

Teacher; you need to discuss those ideas with you parents and they could take you somewhere to learn more of this.

Learning is about opening the mind and the world around us, therefore opposing ideas should not be hidden but discussed in a non emotional non biased basis.

By you own admission, the above example would not be discussed in school. The teacher should never have asked the question.

"A Lesson on the origins of the universe". In your example the teacher should be telling pupils that they need to discuss this "big bang" theory with their parents. You seem fine with teaching kids about scientific theories but you draw the line to religion? Im confused ...

The teacher did not ask the question

Jaxson

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#1008903 19-Mar-2014 12:13

KiwiNZ:
You missed my point, my idea is that all theories should be advised of in a non emotional method and not professing that any are correct or incorrect, what we know about the Universe and it's origins can be summed up in a teaspoon.

No I did get your point, and my point was that if you're going to stop the religious discussions earlier and defer to parents for guidance, then you probably should have stopped the Big Bang discussions equally as early.

Coil

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#1008904 19-Mar-2014 12:14

KiwiNZ:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Jaxson:
KiwiNZ: I feel the teaching of different belief structure should be along the lines of eg

This is brief and probably not correct but I use it for example only please don't shoot me...

A lesson on the origins of the universe

Teacher; there are this e who subscribe to the bing bang theory for the creation of the universe, the beginning being a singularity that resulted in a 'big bang' event.... blah blah

Pupil; are there any other ideas?

Teacher; yes there are, one is that the universe was created by a deity or god.

Pupil; where and who is this god?

Teacher; you need to discuss those ideas with you parents and they could take you somewhere to learn more of this.

Learning is about opening the mind and the world around us, therefore opposing ideas should not be hidden but discussed in a non emotional non biased basis.

By that approach the Scientific explanation should not be taught either, and the whole subject should be wrapped up in 'No one really knows' tape, whilst we move onto spelling, gramma and reading about what 'grazing ones knees' was like - back before the playground was wrapped in spongy rubber padding, all equipment was lowered to a max of 10cm high and we doused ourselves in hand sanitizer every 10 minutes whilst playing a computer game of soccer because no one wanted to use the playing field outside because there was a chance the sun might come out from behind that cloud over there....

You missed my point, my idea is that all theories should be advised of in a non emotional method and not professing that any are correct or incorrect, what we know about the Universe and it's origins can be summed up in a teaspoon.

So you saying only scientific facts should be taught at schools?

WOW. That goes against all scientific theories then.

I am pretty sure i said theories, as for scientific facts they are for now, based on the sum of knowledge up to now.

Maybe they should teach them how to read and write before religion or science. Egypt topics were so much better!

Handsomedan

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#1008906 19-Mar-2014 12:16

freitasm: I have removed one mention of Godwin's Law.

I actually had to google what that meant...I should have my geek card revoked.

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale

*Gladly accepting donations...

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Jaxson

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#1008909 19-Mar-2014 12:17

sxz: I put this together quickly in Excel using Census Data. Thought you guys might find it interesting. Over 120 Religions in NZ

Sorry but I can't quite make that out, can you make it any bigger?
I'm interested in the total percentage that didn't pick an accepted answer, or said no religion outright, or said atheist, or said something stupid that voided their response.

Lyderies

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#1008911 19-Mar-2014 12:19

Jaxson:
sxz: I put this together quickly in Excel using Census Data. Thought you guys might find it interesting. Over 120 Religions in NZ

Sorry but I can't quite make that out, can you make it any bigger?
I'm interested in the total percentage that didn't pick an accepted answer, or said no religion outright, or said atheist, or said something stupid that voided their response.

I put myself as a Jedi along with (by memory) 4000 others

I'm going to noob myself past judgement

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#1008913 19-Mar-2014 12:22

I was wondering how long before someone picked holes in the census data.

The point is most of us don't feel the need to believe in men-in-the-sky-who-created-the-world-in-six-days when we have scientific theories backed by verified (and in many cases, if you care to take the time, self-verifiable) data.

If you don't accept that then that is your problem.

However I don't want my child growing up learning not to think critically about the world around him, and instead accepting as absolute truth a story book written hundreds of years ago by laymen, based on the ramblings of a self-proclaimed prophet. I'm sure many people agree with me.

Jas777

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#1008918 19-Mar-2014 12:31

ubergeeknz

I always thought it was written by the minnions of a Roman Emperor to keep the oiks in line.

Sidestep

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#1008922 19-Mar-2014 12:37

As a parent with a couple of kids in school..
I'd be happy with my kids being taught the Philosophy of Religions, and the Philosophy of Science.
I hope they'd see Empirical Science as a possible way of explaining life, the universe and everything, and be able to compare that with other explanations - and make their own choices.
Religious indoctrination - no.

Klipspringer

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#1008923 19-Mar-2014 12:38

KiwiNZ:
The teacher did not ask the question

KiwiNZ: A lesson on the origins of the universe

Teacher; there are this e who subscribe to the bing bang theory for the creation of the universe, the beginning being a singularity that resulted in a 'big bang' event.... blah blah

Now you are confusing me mate ;-)

Coil

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#1008924 19-Mar-2014 12:38

Jas777: ubergeeknz

I always thought it was written by the minnions of a Roman Emperor to keep the oiks in line.

It was probably revised 100's of times. Not to mention translated through how many languages..

Klipspringer

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#1008926 19-Mar-2014 12:43

TimA:
Jas777: ubergeeknz

I always thought it was written by the minnions of a Roman Emperor to keep the oiks in line.

It was probably revised 100's of times. Not to mention translated through how many languages..

Learn greek and hebrew, read the original manuscripts. No translations required ;-)

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