Kirpan Daggers on Planes

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#1261120 17-Mar-2015 15:20

freitasm:
Mark: Nah! Just pick a old Norse religion and say you need to have your axe with you at all times! Then start expanding on your chosen religion/cult and claim that the gods demand that you MUST go out pillaging .. would make trips to Pak n Save far more exciting! ;-)

And how is this suggestion different from the extremism we see today in the Middle East?

ermmmm, look up! That thing you see is the joke going overhead .... :-)

MikeB4

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#1261131 17-Mar-2015 15:21

When I was still using my short arm crutches I was stopped as I was boarding an aircraft and advised that I could not take those into the cabin even though they had been cleared at security. They advised I would have to continue without them, when I asked ok you want me to drag myself
down the aircraft bridge and aisle, after much discussion and me left standing there which was embarrassing and painful they got a wheelchair and I boarded with that and the cabin crew said they would take ace of the crutches. I have never travelled via that airline again.

mudguard

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#1261300 17-Mar-2015 21:10

Onehunga (poor suburb of Auckland, best known for DressSmart outlet

And now full of million dollar Villas. I'm guessing the poor are renting..

hairy1

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#1261317 17-Mar-2015 21:24

The whole country is missing the point on this.

How are we going to tell the real Sikhs from the fake ones?

What is to stop any loony dressing up as a Sikh and bringing on a gigantic knife?

Have I missed something here?

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

Mark

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#1261321 17-Mar-2015 21:36

hairy1: The whole country is missing the point on this.

How are we going to tell the real Sikhs from the fake ones?

What is to stop any loony dressing up as a Sikh and bringing on a gigantic knife?

Have I missed something here?

Nope you've not missed anything ... I guess the airline staff will just have to ask the person if they really are a sikh and hopefully the bad person will slip up and say no.

It's stupid pandering to minorities but apathy rules and it's easier to cave to them than to listen to people bleat on about how cruel and unfair everyone is being.

MikeB4

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#1261329 17-Mar-2015 21:43

I believe that customs and beliefs should be taken into account when decisions are made but in doing so safety for all should not be compromised. Allow a weapon I believe is an unjustified risk.

cokeman2

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#1261331 17-Mar-2015 21:47

hairy1: The whole country is missing the point on this.

How are we going to tell the real Sikhs from the fake ones?

What is to stop any loony dressing up as a Sikh and bringing on a gigantic knife?

Have I missed something here?

easy to tell from a fake one , maybe if they could speak Punjabi and know why they wearing the kirpan ?

basically if you really want to be a nut case and hurt sum-one you can do it with your bare hands , don't need a weapon , how we going to stop them ? how we tell them from good people to bad people?

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hairy1

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#1261334 17-Mar-2015 21:52

OK. So after some basic googling I can't find any countries which allow Kirpans on aircraft. There is some suggestion that small ones may be allowed on domestic flights in India. Canada etc. don't allow it.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

khull

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#1261345 17-Mar-2015 22:21

Maybe legalise cannabis party should be a religion.... plot thickens

Handsomedan

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#1261391 18-Mar-2015 08:14

cokeman2:
hairy1: The whole country is missing the point on this.

How are we going to tell the real Sikhs from the fake ones?

What is to stop any loony dressing up as a Sikh and bringing on a gigantic knife?

Have I missed something here?

easy to tell from a fake one , maybe if they could speak Punjabi and know why they wearing the kirpan ?

basically if you really want to be a nut case and hurt sum-one you can do it with your bare hands , don't need a weapon , how we going to stop them ? how we tell them from good people to bad people?

I'd say you're maybe missing the point (and possibly a Sikh...which could explain why you're so wholly pro the Kirpan thing - which is absolutely fine).

The issue is not good vs bad people. Let's face it - two Hells Angels were recently not allowed to board a flight unti they removed their patches...they refused, missed their flight and then "politely declined to comment" to the media. Later it was said they complied and caught a later flight.

If they had cited that the Hells Angels motorcycle gang (which has a global membership in the many thousands) was a religion, would they have been treated any differently? Should they have been treated any differently?
They weren't even carrying weapons - ceremonial or not. They were wearing clothing with a logo on it.

The point is - religious beliefs SHOULD NOT trump the law of the land - no matter how much that aggrieves the religious follower. I think this also goes for cultural norms, whether bathed in religion or simply history.

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frankv

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#1261395 18-Mar-2015 08:28

Handsomedan: The point is - religious beliefs SHOULD NOT trump the law of the land - no matter how much that aggrieves the religious follower. I think this also goes for cultural norms, whether bathed in religion or simply history.

OTOH, the law of the land should not unreasonably limit the ability of the citizens to do what they want.

I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a harmless ceremonial object, be it in the form of a dagger or a Hells Angels logo or the Willam Webb Ellis trophy) on an aircraft.

sbiddle

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#1261396 18-Mar-2015 08:38

frankv:
Handsomedan: The point is - religious beliefs SHOULD NOT trump the law of the land - no matter how much that aggrieves the religious follower. I think this also goes for cultural norms, whether bathed in religion or simply history.

OTOH, the law of the land should not unreasonably limit the ability of the citizens to do what they want.

I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a harmless ceremonial object, be it in the form of a dagger or a Hells Angels logo or the Willam Webb Ellis trophy) on an aircraft.

So if I read that right there should be no airport screening because there should be no restrictions on what you can carry on a plane?

Handsomedan

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#1261397 18-Mar-2015 08:40

frankv:
Handsomedan: The point is - religious beliefs SHOULD NOT trump the law of the land - no matter how much that aggrieves the religious follower. I think this also goes for cultural norms, whether bathed in religion or simply history.

OTOH, the law of the land should not unreasonably limit the ability of the citizens to do what they want.

I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a harmless ceremonial object, be it in the form of a dagger or a Hells Angels logo or the Willam Webb Ellis trophy) on an aircraft.

I tend to agree and disagree on that front.

It's hard to say if a Kirpan is, in fact, a "harmless ceremonial object".

Let's face it - most airlines still don't use metal cutlery...since 9/11, it's been impossible to have a knife of any kind on a plane. I deliberately don't take my Swiss Card multi-tool on flights with me, as I know the rules - despite being a harmless little piece of kit.

I actually don't have an issue with logos and patches, but understand why there are restrictions on these, as they can cause friction amongst rival factions, but I truly believe that weapons - ceremonial or not, should not be allowed on any public transport.

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Inphinity

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#1261398 18-Mar-2015 08:40

frankv:
Handsomedan: The point is - religious beliefs SHOULD NOT trump the law of the land - no matter how much that aggrieves the religious follower. I think this also goes for cultural norms, whether bathed in religion or simply history.

OTOH, the law of the land should not unreasonably limit the ability of the citizens to do what they want.

I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a harmless ceremonial object, be it in the form of a dagger or a Hells Angels logo or the Willam Webb Ellis trophy) on an aircraft.

So it's fine to take a 'harmless' ceremonial hatchet on board, too? Ceremonial does NOT mean it can't be an effective weapon, and I've seen a number of kirpan that are bloody sharp (though it seems quite a few are, sensibly, blunted).

MikeB4

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#1261417 18-Mar-2015 09:29

If these are allowed then we will see clowns claiming their bongs are religious symbols as are knuckle dusters, guns etc. A blanket prohibition makes administration easier and removes to an extent grounds for accusations of discrimination against any particular group. There is already enough things done to invite ridicule and discrimination against religious or ethnic groups we don't
have to add more fuel to the fire.

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