It is 2015. How is Semble doing?

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#1273663 30-Mar-2015 19:26

The vodafone one isn't compatible:

The 2degrees one doesn't think I live here:

Fun fun.

Regardless, are semble sims ready in all telcos stores yet?

Host Card Emulation can't come fast enough.

ajobbins

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#1273664 30-Mar-2015 19:31

As much as I love the concept of this, without HCE I can't see this succeeding.

Trying to maintain the relationships between banks, telco's and an intermediary will be challenging enough - especially when they all want to clip the ticket. And UICC based SE adds another barrier for end users (well actually, a number of barriers).

If they can move to HCE quickly, I can see this working (but how do they make money??). If not, card providers will bypass them and go HCE in their own apps direct. Here in Oz, I already have two HCE cards running on my Nexus 5 (Commbank and CUA). I don't need a special SIM, the providers don't care who my carrier is, and there is no one in the middle trying to make a buck.

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acsonline

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#1273667 30-Mar-2015 19:33

freitasm: Now I wonder if I can just move the SIM to the other phone and continue to use Semble when certified on it, or will it have to get a new SIM...

Yup you can do this. You can pop your Semble Ready SIM into any handset - whenever you want. If the handset supports Semble, and you have the Semble app installed - then it will restore your information onto it - as long as you have your 5-digit security code. The key here is that the secure data (credit cards, PIN, etc) is on the SIM - the app just provides a nice UI.

eXDee

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#1273668 30-Mar-2015 19:33

ajobbins: As much as I love the concept of this, without HCE I can't see this succeeding.

Trying to maintain the relationships between banks, telco's and an intermediary will be challenging enough - especially when they all want to clip the ticket. And UICC based SI adds another barrier for end users (well actually, a number of barriers).

If they can move to HCE quickly, I can see this working (but how do they make money??). If not, card providers will bypass them and go HCE in their own apps direct. Here in Oz, I already have two HCE cards running on my Nexus 5 (Commbank and CUA). I don't need a special SIM, the providers don't care who my carrier is, and there is no one in the middle trying to make a buck.

This is the route ANZ is taking for their mobile app. Hopefully they deliver this year rather than later - if so i'd possibly take up service with them even just to try it .

freitasm

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#1273674 30-Mar-2015 19:36

ajobbins: As much as I love the concept of this, without HCE I can't see this succeeding.

Trying to maintain the relationships between banks, telco's and an intermediary will be challenging enough - especially when they all want to clip the ticket. And UICC based SI adds another barrier for end users (well actually, a number of barriers).

If they can move to HCE quickly, I can see this working (but how do they make money??). If not, card providers will bypass them and go HCE in their own apps direct. Here in Oz, I already have two HCE cards running on my Nexus 5 (Commbank and CUA). I don't need a special SIM, the providers don't care who my carrier is, and there is no one in the middle trying to make a buck.

Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

roobarb

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#1273701 30-Mar-2015 19:56

freitasm: Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

How does offering more options than you previously had count as limiting choice?

There is no technical or administrative barrier to any organisation offering HCE solutions, apart from the inherent technical problems of poorer performance and worse security.

I note that, in an industry where contactless transactions are measured in milliseconds, ANZ are promising their HCE transactions will complete in seconds.

freitasm

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#1273704 30-Mar-2015 19:59

roobarb:
freitasm: Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

How does offering more options than you previously had count as limiting choice?

There is no technical or administrative barrier to any organisation offering HCE solutions, apart from the inherent technical problems of poorer performance and worse security.

I note that, in an industry where contactless transactions are measured in milliseconds, ANZ are promising their HCE transactions will complete in seconds.

You misread my comments. HCE offers MORE choice, while Semble limits my choices to only the institutions they work with.

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ajobbins

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#1273713 30-Mar-2015 20:13

roobarb:
freitasm: Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

How does offering more options than you previously had count as limiting choice?

There is no technical or administrative barrier to any organisation offering HCE solutions, apart from the inherent technical problems of poorer performance and worse security.

I note that, in an industry where contactless transactions are measured in milliseconds, ANZ are promising their HCE transactions will complete in seconds.

HCE has been endorsed by both Visa and Mastercard. If it wasn't up to scratch security wise, they would not have adopted it. Banks were also elated when HCE was announced, as the commercials around carrier involvement were not viable.

HCE can also cache tokens in advance, so you don't need to be 'Online' to make a payment. The latency will be the same as a physical SE on the device. I've been using HCE with two different banks on my Nexus 5 and it's great. Transactions are instant an no slower than my physical PayWave/Pass card. I also seem to be able to do a transaction while in Airplane mode (as long as I turn NFC back on). I just need to go online again after one transaction to get a new token. For most people, this will never ever be an issue.

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acsonline

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#1273715 30-Mar-2015 20:17

freitasm:
roobarb:
freitasm: Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

How does offering more options than you previously had count as limiting choice?

There is no technical or administrative barrier to any organisation offering HCE solutions, apart from the inherent technical problems of poorer performance and worse security.

I note that, in an industry where contactless transactions are measured in milliseconds, ANZ are promising their HCE transactions will complete in seconds.

You misread my comments. HCE offers MORE choice, while Semble limits my choices to only the institutions they work with.

There's no reason why you couldn't use both. Android is pretty flexible this way. It's all up to the banks/service providers.

Semble is just another app - what it offers is a ready-made (well, mostly) platform on which multiple service providers/banks/etc. could add their cards on without having to re-invent their wheel. The true value will be apparent once more services start coming onboard.

Or maybe in a couple of years NFC will be gone the way of magstripe. Biometrics replacing physical/virtual cards.. or Paypal taking over the world.

ajobbins

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#1273728 30-Mar-2015 20:20

So how does Semble make money?

Are they clipping the ticket? What about the telco's who have to provide the SIM?

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sbiddle

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#1273747 30-Mar-2015 20:29

roobarb:
I note that, in an industry where contactless transactions are measured in milliseconds, ANZ are promising their HCE transactions will complete in seconds.

I've seen HCE used in Australia and transaction times were no different to regular Paywave/Paypass transactions.

The fragmentation in the Android market and fact every provider from the banks and providers need to sit down and agree on paper is the reason SWP/UICC based SE has been an incredible failure, despite the technology being proven and ready for the lass market for 5+ years. The reasons it's never happened are the very reasons it's doomed going forward as well. The failure of products like Softcard just further emphasises that.

sonyxperiageek

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#1273762 30-Mar-2015 20:51

freitasm:
ajobbins: As much as I love the concept of this, without HCE I can't see this succeeding.

Trying to maintain the relationships between banks, telco's and an intermediary will be challenging enough - especially when they all want to clip the ticket. And UICC based SI adds another barrier for end users (well actually, a number of barriers).

If they can move to HCE quickly, I can see this working (but how do they make money??). If not, card providers will bypass them and go HCE in their own apps direct. Here in Oz, I already have two HCE cards running on my Nexus 5 (Commbank and CUA). I don't need a special SIM, the providers don't care who my carrier is, and there is no one in the middle trying to make a buck.

Correct. This means I can't use cards with a party that is not in the listed financial institutions. Thanks for limiting choice...

Semble are just getting started. Give them a couple more months before rant. :-)

Sony

Flickky

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#1273763 30-Mar-2015 20:53

ajobbins: So how does Semble make money?

Are they clipping the ticket? What about the telco's who have to provide the SIM?

Semble is owned by the telcos, so..

sonyxperiageek

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#1273766 30-Mar-2015 20:56

eXDee:
ajobbins: As much as I love the concept of this, without HCE I can't see this succeeding.

Trying to maintain the relationships between banks, telco's and an intermediary will be challenging enough - especially when they all want to clip the ticket. And UICC based SI adds another barrier for end users (well actually, a number of barriers).

If they can move to HCE quickly, I can see this working (but how do they make money??). If not, card providers will bypass them and go HCE in their own apps direct. Here in Oz, I already have two HCE cards running on my Nexus 5 (Commbank and CUA). I don't need a special SIM, the providers don't care who my carrier is, and there is no one in the middle trying to make a buck.

This is the route ANZ is taking for their mobile app. Hopefully they deliver this year rather than later - if so i'd possibly take up service with them even just to try it .

I really hope there will just be one solution to mobile payments in NZ for the future, not a special app from each institution. I.e Semble partnering with MOST if not all major banks in NZ.

Sony

Yabanize

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#1273777 30-Mar-2015 21:09

Hopefully there will be Semble for Skinny

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