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Geektastic
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  #1661745 31-Oct-2016 21:40
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Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I do not understand the objections to this idea. Having the government fund a broadcaster does not have to inevitably mean unwarranted political interference in the programming. There are ways to defend against that. Other countries, most notably the Netherlands, manage it quite well. Why are we so hopeless that we can't do that too?

 

The argument for government-funded public service broadcasting in the first place is the same as the argument for public transport, drinking water, libraries, and other essential services. The capitalist free enterprise competitive market model works well for many things, but it doesn't work well for some things. Not every value can be reduced to dollars and cents. With free enterprise broadcasting, you get the kind of lowest common denominator crap that currently pollutes our airwaves. Quality content is unfortunately not economic in this environment and cannot compete with the rubbish. To survive it needs to be supported by other means. It is accepted that people pay taxes to pay for essential services provided by the government that would not be economic otherwise. My argument is just that public broadcasting should be included as one of these essential services. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Providing water and waste water are utilities and a government function but can be and should be contracted. TV, Radio stations, transport are businesses and not a core function of government.

 

Remember you may not like the current media offerings but you are NOT all, the market research etc these organisations do will show what the majority wants. 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree more.  Water and waste services are prime examples of things which could be privatised, in the same way electricity and telecommunications have been.  Even prison services.

 

You're just picking what you do/don't want to define as core government services/business based on your political bias.

 

My political bias - combined with observation - is that the private model for sole provision of all news services is an abject failure. As the newspapers have devolved into magazine gossip merchants and providers of advertorial services for business interests, there's been nothing to fill the void, except perhaps renewed interest in Radio NZ - by the few of us left apparently - who actually do want to read or hear real local news.  The alternative seems to be screaming shock-jocks interspersed by advertisements for quack remedies made out of shark fins or magnets - to fix what else is wrong with us once we've made ourselves happier by bashing everybody we don't agree with. 

 

TV is dead/dying, NZ is too small to run a "BBC", but there is a definite need for a state broadcaster in some form.

 

 

 

Market research is also utter BS in that context.  Newspapers / Media isn't toilet paper, where customer feedback about softness should influence what you produce.

 

 

 

 

A curiosity - the wastewater treatment plant at Moa Point in Wellington, presumably a local government asset, was designed and commissioned by AWG Ltd, a privatised former government owned water & wastewater business in the East of England, headquartered near Cambridge. Following privatisation, they took their expertise all over the world on projects like that.








Fred99
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  #1661753 31-Oct-2016 21:55
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

A curiosity - the wastewater treatment plant at Moa Point in Wellington, presumably a local government asset, was designed and commissioned by AWG Ltd, a privatised former government owned water & wastewater business in the East of England, headquartered near Cambridge. Following privatisation, they took their expertise all over the world on projects like that.

 

 

 

 

SOEs and CRIs, tertiary education providers, probably others I don't know about sell their expertise overseas, but are still state-owned.

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1661754 31-Oct-2016 21:58
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alasta:

 

I agree that the government should not be running businesses, hence why TVNZ should be privatised. However Radio NZ should not be privatised because it is a public service, not a business. 

 

It's an important distinction that a lot of people seem to have difficulty making.

 

 

I'll bite. Why?

 

Way back in the day, TV and a lot radio was a public service. Now, there is TV content galore, radio stations galore. NZ doesn't need the help of the Govt to develop and grow

 

a fledgling service. That was decades ago. 




JimmyH
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  #1662899 2-Nov-2016 19:16
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Fred99:

 

JimmyH:

 

I'm not particularly keen on serious news reporting being dependent on government funding.

 

It makes the media too vulnerable to government pressure. It's quite hard to do this using regulatory methods. But, I suspect, much easier via the back-door, especially if the government appoints the board as well as controlling the funding.

 

It's OK to have some state provision. But we need something that is independent of state revenue and (direct or indirect) editorial control to keep it honest.

 

 

 

 

Oh dear.

 

Given that you seem to agree that it needs to be "funded", lets keep it "honest" by letting those with lots of money do the funding.  That'll restore "balance".  Brilliant.

 

 

I'm not sure you are quite getting my point.

 

Firstly, I'm not sure why you have put the words funded, honest and balance in quotes. You seem to be trying to make a point with this, but I don't know what it is?

 

Secondly, of course news professional news provision needs to be funded. There are a range of options for this. They can be funded by the subscribers - eg, by buying a newspaper, or paying for a TV package that includes news channels. They can be funded by commercial interests - typically commercial advertisers. They can be funded by the government out of taxes. Or they can be funded from other private sources - such as a philanthropic trust. One or more of these is required, otherwise there's no one to pay for journalism, production, or transmission etc.

 

Thirdly, I don't know how you have somehow made a leap to saying I somehow fancy having news provision under the control of people with lost of money. I'm not, and I never said I was.

 

What I did say was that I wasn't keen on having news provision dependent on government funding. And that's still my position. Without some diversity, including at least some news provision that is independent of the government, it is far too easy for incumbent politicians to overtly or opaquely control the news reaching the populace. And that's bad. Russia would be a good example - proper independent mass-media news provision has gradually been squeezed out, and the news that is now provided is (surprise, surprise) overwhelmingly pro-government.

 

For some reason you seem to be trying to represent this as an anti-government hand control to the rich argument?

 

 


Fred99
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  #1663009 2-Nov-2016 23:40
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Nobody in their right mind is suggesting a state monopoly on provision of news services, but a quality state news service, independent from the need to keep advertisers happy and on board, set up with independent governance to ensure that there isn't state interference.

 

I keep getting the feeling that there's relentless lobbying from commercial interests and ideological lunatics like libertarian/objectivists, against Radio NZ, funding has been frozen for 8 years since 2010.

 

Yet from RNZ annual report:

 

 

It's actually very important IMO that it's not lost - for what I hope are obvious reasons.

 

 


mattwnz

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  #1663019 3-Nov-2016 00:59
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tdgeek:

 

alasta:

 

I agree that the government should not be running businesses, hence why TVNZ should be privatised. However Radio NZ should not be privatised because it is a public service, not a business. 

 

It's an important distinction that a lot of people seem to have difficulty making.

 

 

I'll bite. Why?

 

Way back in the day, TV and a lot radio was a public service. Now, there is TV content galore, radio stations galore. NZ doesn't need the help of the Govt to develop and grow

 

a fledgling service. That was decades ago. 

 

 

 

 

Because a lot of the content now is total rubbish, and solely driven by ratings. It is the type of content that gets viewers who benefit the advertisers the most. As a result you can get huge distortions on the type of content. There is a reason why there are so many reality programs regarding home renovations and cooking, as these supermarkets and big box retail tool shops have deep pockets for advertising.  At the moment, the only reason programs like Q&A and the Nation make it onto TV, is because of the platinum fund. But they are played off peak , so not too many people watch them.

 

But really the only way for people to know what is going on in government, is via the media. If you don't have the media reporting on things going on in NZ, the public can't make an informed decision on who to vote for, and democracy will go down the drain. At the moment, the media only tends to report on more controversial things, as there is a heck of a lot of stuff that is passed through parliament that we never hear about.


Rikkitic
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  #1663026 3-Nov-2016 06:41
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There is currently a petition to support RNZ. I urge everyone who cares about this to sign it. https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/save-radio-new-zealand

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


 
 
 

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MikeB4
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  #1663056 3-Nov-2016 06:56
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Fred99:

 


Nobody in their right mind is suggesting a state monopoly on provision of news services, but a quality state news service, independent from the need to keep advertisers happy and on board, set up with independent governance to ensure that there isn't state interference.


I keep getting the feeling that there's relentless lobbying from commercial interests and ideological lunatics like libertarian/objectivists, against Radio NZ, funding has been frozen for 8 years since 2010.


Yet from RNZ annual report:



It's actually very important IMO that it's not lost - for what I hope are obvious reasons.


 



I may have had some support for your post if you hadn't resorted to your wheelhouse of insulting anyone that has an opposing view to you.

Fred99
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  #1663080 3-Nov-2016 08:26
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MikeB4:

I may have had some support for your post if you hadn't resorted to your wheelhouse of insulting anyone that has an opposing view to you.

 

May I suggest that you don't take things personally.  No personal insults were intended.


Pumpedd
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  #1663285 3-Nov-2016 12:39
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Have to laugh at current Stuss headlines...."Could Harry Marry a Divorcee?"

 

How dumb....didnt his father marry a divorcee?


mattwnz

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  #1663316 3-Nov-2016 13:43
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Rikkitic:

 

There is currently a petition to support RNZ. I urge everyone who cares about this to sign it. https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/save-radio-new-zealand

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a way I think RNZ should be decoupled from the Governments funding control, and the amount it is paid be assessed by an independent organisation. For example something similar to what controls what government workers, such as the independent organisation that recommends what council CEOs and Mayors are paid. Every year the amount they get paid goes up. I think this is essential for democracy in NZ, and a strong media is essential for that.


MikeB4
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  #1663321 3-Nov-2016 13:49
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Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

I may have had some support for your post if you hadn't resorted to your wheelhouse of insulting anyone that has an opposing view to you.

 

May I suggest that you don't take things personally.  No personal insults were intended.

 

 

 

 

Not taking anything personally, I feel that using terms like "ideological lunatics like libertarian/objectivists" are not necessary and add nothing to the discussion. 


Fred99
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  #1663353 3-Nov-2016 15:00
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

I may have had some support for your post if you hadn't resorted to your wheelhouse of insulting anyone that has an opposing view to you.

 

May I suggest that you don't take things personally.  No personal insults were intended.

 

 

 

 

Not taking anything personally, I feel that using terms like "ideological lunatics like libertarian/objectivists" are not necessary and add nothing to the discussion. 

 

 

 

 

Why not?  People criticise communists, religious fundamentalists, terrorists as lunatics.

 

Why should libertarians get special treatment?  They're just as extreme, argue based on dogma, have a guru, are a cult.

 

 


alasta
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  #1663476 3-Nov-2016 20:42
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mattwnz:

 

Rikkitic:

 

There is currently a petition to support RNZ. I urge everyone who cares about this to sign it. https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/save-radio-new-zealand

 

 

 

 In a way I think RNZ should be decoupled from the Governments funding control, and the amount it is paid be assessed by an independent organisation. For example something similar to what controls what government workers, such as the independent organisation that recommends what council CEOs and Mayors are paid. Every year the amount they get paid goes up. I think this is essential for democracy in NZ, and a strong media is essential for that.

 

 

Radio NZ is funded through NZ on Air, which also chooses to fund rubbish like Jono & Ben and Funny Girls. Could Radio NZ's lack of funding come down to NZ on Air's strange priorities?


mattwnz

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  #1664653 6-Nov-2016 19:08
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alasta:

 

Radio NZ is funded through NZ on Air, which also chooses to fund rubbish like Jono & Ben and Funny Girls. Could Radio NZ's lack of funding come down to NZ on Air's strange priorities?

 

 

 

 

Guess they have to be seen to be 'Spreading the love'. 


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