Do you want the flag to stay as it is?

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#1505930 4-Mar-2016 12:53

LookingUp:

roobarb:

The fern on a flag fails two major national flag related tests:

It is not distinguishable at a distance - it looks like a smudge

A child of five cannot draw the flag

... and the current flag fails these two tests even more. The current flag can't even be distinguished up close by some ;-)

A flag that appears to be smudged at a distance still has visual characteristics that allow it to be distinguished from other flags. It could be a very unique smudge.

I'm not sure where these test criteria come from but if you apply them to lists of the best national flags then the large majority fail the "child of five" test. Check them out for yourself - I googled "best national flag" and get lists like these:

http://www.ranker.com/list/best-country-flags/ranker-travel

http://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/10-best-national-flag-designs-in-the-world/. This one has a worst list which includes designs that a child of five can easily draw because they are just two colours: Monaco, Indonesia and Poland. Note that the worst list does include flags that do not represent countries.

etc.

frankv

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#1505963 4-Mar-2016 13:45

LookingUp:

roobarb:

The fern on a flag fails two major national flag related tests:

It is not distinguishable at a distance - it looks like a smudge

A child of five cannot draw the flag

... and the current flag fails these two tests even more. The current flag can't even be distinguished up close by some ;-)

The fact that the old flag is bad doesn't mean we should switch to a new bad flag.

As far as I am concerned, the whole thing was done back to front. First we should have decided whether to change the flag or not. Then come up with a new design, without any artificial time constraints. Including some kind of education on what makes a good flag (e.g. the above 2 tests).

I think that the artificial constraint of a 3:4 (or whatever it is) rectangle indicates the narrowness of John Key's vision. It immediately limited the creativity that went into the submitted designs. Why not a triangular flag (Nepal has 2 triangles) or square (e.g. Swiss) or any other appropriate shape?

Personally, if we want a flag that's representative of NZ today, I think we should emulate the Govt's land policies, and just sell space on the flag to the highest bidder. This would be a money-spinner, instead of wasting $26M! How much would a global corporate pay to get your logo on-screen at the Olympics and inside every "clean" stadium at the RWC? Some corporate might even pay Saatchi & Saatchi to come up with a really good flag design. The flag would *automatically* become a truly representative agglomeration of who owns NZ... think McDonalds' golden arches, Fonterra's logo (represents this link to the land, with colours that represent land, water, sky and sun), MS Windows, Shania Twain's face, Gareth Morgan's cat, Disney's castle, and the colonizing powers' Stars & Stripes & golden stars on a red background.

Rikkitic

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#1506036 4-Mar-2016 15:21

Unbridled media commercialisation. That sounds like New Zealand, all right.

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MikeB4

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#1506060 4-Mar-2016 16:01

Rikkitic:

Unbridled media commercialisation. That sounds like New Zealand, all right.

I guess it does seem that commercial considerations come before all else, but being small we need to get all we can.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

andrew027

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#1506065 4-Mar-2016 16:05

frankv: Personally, if we want a flag that's representative of NZ today, I think we should emulate the Govt's land policies, and just sell space on the flag to the highest bidder. This would be a money-spinner, instead of wasting $26M! How much would a global corporate pay to get your logo on-screen at the Olympics and inside every "clean" stadium at the RWC? Some corporate might even pay Saatchi & Saatchi to come up with a really good flag design. The flag would *automatically* become a truly representative agglomeration of who owns NZ... think McDonalds' golden arches, Fonterra's logo (represents this link to the land, with colours that represent land, water, sky and sun), MS Windows, Shania Twain's face, Gareth Morgan's cat, Disney's castle, and the colonizing powers' Stars & Stripes & golden stars on a red background.

Good idea. Let's keep the general style of the current flag, but replace the union jack in the canton with a space we can rent out to the highest bidder.

Geektastic

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#1506199 4-Mar-2016 20:10

MikeB4:

The Kiwi is very symbolic of NZ from Military vehicles and craft to grocery items. It is still on every McLaren car and is the company logo. It does not however make the Siler Fern any less unique or symbolic of NZ

It's a far more recognisable symbol of NZ IMV.

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amiga500

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#1506516 5-Mar-2016 16:15

The new design was too timid for me although I agree with the sentiments expressed in the information pack about the new flag and its meaning.
And I think it's no bad thing to have a flag similar to Australia especially when Malcolm Turnbull is trying to ease things for Kiwis in Australia.

Sideface

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#1506528 5-Mar-2016 16:56

Got my referendum voting papers today.

Without a moment's hesitation I voted for the new flag.

It's in the post.

Disclaimer:

I hold joint Australian and UK citizenship, so I respect the Union Jack - but not on a colonial flag designed by a British admiral in 1902.

Unfortunately I can't vote for a new Australian flag ... yet.

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dafman

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#1506532 5-Mar-2016 17:11

Sideface:

Got my referendum voting papers today.

Without a moment's hesitation I voted for the new flag.

It's in the post.

I just nullified your vote with mine (-;

Sideface

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#1506534 5-Mar-2016 17:19

dafman: <snip> I just nullified your vote with mine (-;

That's democracy in action!

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amiga500

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#1506685 5-Mar-2016 23:41

dafman:

Sideface:

Got my referendum voting papers today.

Without a moment's hesitation I voted for the new flag.

It's in the post.

I just nullified your vote with mine (-;

Assuming that NZ Post gets around to delivering the voting envelopes prior to the deadline...

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#1506688 5-Mar-2016 23:46

old3eyes:

I see that The Big Bang Theory is in favor of our flag change . So am I..

Pretty much the only reason anyone needs really.

I am for the change as the current one looks too much like the Aussie one and the new one is more appropriate for the New Zealand of today.

The cost of the change is nothing compared to the social budget every year which is in the hundreds of millions.

UncleArthur

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#1506725 6-Mar-2016 07:23

Time for my 5 cents on the topic.

I know many have mentioned that a reason for change is the similarity between our flag and Australia's flag.

As I see it our flags being similar also has an advantage, let me elaborate:

When New Zealand does really well and succeeds at something on the international stage, people might ask: "Are you from Australia?"...... In that instance the appropriate reply is: "No, no we are not, we are from New Zealand"

However, when New Zealand does really badly on the international stage, let's say we completely screw up and fall flat on our face..... in that instance people might ask: "Are you from Australia?".... then we can reply: "Yes!, absolutely we are!"

It's a total win win.

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