Poland & Denmark ban kosher/halal slaughter

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Geektastic

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#140833 21-Feb-2014 14:20

This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

wongtop

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#991830 21-Feb-2014 14:25

Nah, all our agricultural exports go to China now!

gzt

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#991846 21-Feb-2014 14:53

Geektastic: given that NZ meat is all halal I believe

Not all, but it appears more than is commonly thought:

"Is the beef available in New Zealand supermarkets all Halal? Although a significant proportion of sheep and beef is slaughtered according to halal requirements, only a much smaller percentage is actually halal-certified and labeled."

source: http://www.beeflambnz.co.nz/index.pl?page=faq&m=458#9

It would be interesting to know how much exactly.

gzt

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#991851 21-Feb-2014 14:59

Geektastic: This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

Hang on a sec. NZ laws already require stunning prior to ritual type slaughter. Is the EU just catching up on this one and moving towards the same?

nakedmolerat

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#991852 21-Feb-2014 15:00

Not ALL NZ meats are Halal. Most of the Halal meats are sold overseas (read Middle East, Asia etc). The Halal meat available in NZ is more expensive and mostly sold in small / specialty Butcher.

Geektastic

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#991919 21-Feb-2014 17:53

gzt:
Geektastic: This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

Hang on a sec. NZ laws already require stunning prior to ritual type slaughter. Is the EU just catching up on this one and moving towards the same?

The Independent says

"Denmark’s government has brought in a ban on the religious slaughter of animals for the production of halal and kosher meat, after years of campaigning from welfare activists. The change to the law, announced last week and effective as of yesterday, has been called “anti-Semitism” by Jewish leaders and “a clear interference in religious freedom” by the non-profit group Danish Halal. European regulations require animals to be stunned before they are slaughtered, but grants exemptions on religious grounds. For meat to be considered kosher under Jewish law or halal under Islamic law, the animal must be conscious when killed."

I'm not sure how NZ gets around that.

Geektastic

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#991921 21-Feb-2014 17:58

From Aljazeera:

Update: The Danish Ministry for Food, Agriculture, and Fisheries has released a statement addressing the new regulation on kosher and halal slaughter.

“No slaughter without pre-stunning has been registered in Denmark in the last ten years. It is still permitted to import meat slaughtered without pre-stunning. And a very large amount of Danish meat has been – and will continue to be – halal slaughtered, with the animal stunned right before slaughter”, says Danish Agriculture and Food Minister Dan Jorgensen.

Khalil Jaffar, an imam at the Islamic Cultural Centre in Copenhagen, told Al Jazeera on Tuesday that Danish Islamic leaders issued a religious decree several years ago saying that animals stunned before slaughter were considered halal in Denmark. Danish Halal, a non-profit halal monitoring group, maintains that stunning the animal before slaughter is in contradiction to the rules of halal slaughter. Their petition against the new regulation has received 12,000 signatures. According to an announcement by Danish Halal on Tuesday, the group has a meeting with Jorgensen on Friday, and will deliver the petition at that time.

A ban on kosher and halal slaughter in Denmark began Monday. Announcing the ban last week, Danish Agriculture and Food Minister Dan Jorgensen said, "Animal rights come before religion".

Traditionally, in order to be considered kosher under Jewish law or halal under Islamic law, animals must be conscious when killed. The new rule, which follows similar regulations in other European countries, requires animals be stunned before slaughter.

Danish Halal launched a petition condemning the ban. The group calls it "a clear interference in religious freedom limiting the rights of Muslims and Jews to practice their religion in Denmark".

gzt

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#991927 21-Feb-2014 18:22

NZ has followed the practice of stunning before ritual slaughter for a very long time. This is accepted by the export markets and has no doubt been approved by the relevant religious authorities for those markets.

I'm not familiar with the Denmark situation but it looks a lot like the people on both sides are winding it up for political gain on each side. It also looks like the government of Denmark did not follow a process of consultation on this one, a process which probably would have had exactly the same outcome their law change now provides for, but which is now lacking some legitimacy due to a foolish lack of consultation.

Edit: Imam says there is actually no change: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/02/danish-halal-law-changes-nothing-says-imam-2014218131810376890.html

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gregmcc

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#991932 21-Feb-2014 18:42

Geektastic:
gzt:
Geektastic: This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

Hang on a sec. NZ laws already require stunning prior to ritual type slaughter. Is the EU just catching up on this one and moving towards the same?

The Independent says

"Denmark’s government has brought in a ban on the religious slaughter of animals for the production of halal and kosher meat, after years of campaigning from welfare activists. The change to the law, announced last week and effective as of yesterday, has been called “anti-Semitism” by Jewish leaders and “a clear interference in religious freedom” by the non-profit group Danish Halal. European regulations require animals to be stunned before they are slaughtered, but grants exemptions on religious grounds. For meat to be considered kosher under Jewish law or halal under Islamic law, the animal must be conscious when killed."

I'm not sure how NZ gets around that.

It seems you have not witnessed a halal slaughter, just because an animal is stunned it doesn't mean it is unconscious, when they are stunned they are conscious, they just cannot move due to the nervious system been oveloaded by the stunning, eyes are open and they can see what is going on

andrewNZ

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#991937 21-Feb-2014 19:06

gzt:
Geektastic: given that NZ meat is all halal I believe

Not all, but it appears more than is commonly thought:

"Is the beef available in New Zealand supermarkets all Halal? Although a significant proportion of sheep and beef is slaughtered according to halal requirements, only a much smaller percentage is actually halal-certified and labeled."

source: http://www.beeflambnz.co.nz/index.pl?page=faq&m=458#9

It would be interesting to know how much exactly.

Bugger all IME.

I've spent some time in boning rooms and only saw a handful of Halal animals. The process is a PITA. Things may have changed, it's been a few years now.

Once you're down to a clean carcass, a cattle beast takes minutes to be cut down and boxed. The line is continuously moving, and they probably process one every minute or two (maybe less, I forget exactly).

When they do a Halal animal, the whole line empties and stops. A table and various parts of the line are washed so they can butcher it.
When you're doing one every couple of mins, a 20-30 min stop is pretty major.

You can get a reasonable idea of the normal process if you search for "hot boning room" (I'd stick to youtube...)

Fred99

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#991961 21-Feb-2014 19:37

gregmcc:
Geektastic:
gzt:
Geektastic: This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

Hang on a sec. NZ laws already require stunning prior to ritual type slaughter. Is the EU just catching up on this one and moving towards the same?

The Independent says

"Denmark’s government has brought in a ban on the religious slaughter of animals for the production of halal and kosher meat, after years of campaigning from welfare activists. The change to the law, announced last week and effective as of yesterday, has been called “anti-Semitism” by Jewish leaders and “a clear interference in religious freedom” by the non-profit group Danish Halal. European regulations require animals to be stunned before they are slaughtered, but grants exemptions on religious grounds. For meat to be considered kosher under Jewish law or halal under Islamic law, the animal must be conscious when killed."

I'm not sure how NZ gets around that.

It seems you have not witnessed a halal slaughter, just because an animal is stunned it doesn't mean it is unconscious, when they are stunned they are conscious, they just cannot move due to the nervious system been oveloaded by the stunning, eyes are open and they can see what is going on

I don't agree with that. Halal slaughter in NZ abattoirs, sheep are first electrically stunned. Electroencephalogram data and lack of a blink response indicates that if done correctly, they feel nothing (and are instantly in a state of insensibility). It has been thoroughly researched and the process is strictly controlled. Electric stunning doesn't work reliably for cattle, so they use captive bolt guns.

That said, if someone was to get into a NZ sheep slaughterhouse in peak season, with several chains operating (something like 4,000 sheep per chain per day) and shoot a hi definition video, it probably wouldn't do a lot for the meat industry. While clean and efficient it certainly is, the sight of hundreds of twitching dangling carcasses bleeding onto the "blood ramp" as they slowly move up into the works is quite a sight. I'm a determined and normally happy carnivore - but when I've visited these sites, meat is off the menu for lunch for me. OTOH, I had no problems killing and butchering deer etc in my hunting days. The horror (IMO) of the killing room is in the scale of it.

gregmcc

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#992010 21-Feb-2014 21:17

Fred99:
gregmcc:
Geektastic:
gzt:
Geektastic: This is an interesting one - given that NZ meat is all halal I believe.

If they ban the import of halal meat as well as the slaughter and it spreads EU wide, it could cost NZ a lot.

Hang on a sec. NZ laws already require stunning prior to ritual type slaughter. Is the EU just catching up on this one and moving towards the same?

The Independent says

"Denmark’s government has brought in a ban on the religious slaughter of animals for the production of halal and kosher meat, after years of campaigning from welfare activists. The change to the law, announced last week and effective as of yesterday, has been called “anti-Semitism” by Jewish leaders and “a clear interference in religious freedom” by the non-profit group Danish Halal. European regulations require animals to be stunned before they are slaughtered, but grants exemptions on religious grounds. For meat to be considered kosher under Jewish law or halal under Islamic law, the animal must be conscious when killed."

I'm not sure how NZ gets around that.

It seems you have not witnessed a halal slaughter, just because an animal is stunned it doesn't mean it is unconscious, when they are stunned they are conscious, they just cannot move due to the nervious system been oveloaded by the stunning, eyes are open and they can see what is going on

I don't agree with that. Halal slaughter in NZ abattoirs, sheep are first electrically stunned. Electroencephalogram data and lack of a blink response indicates that if done correctly, they feel nothing (and are instantly in a state of insensibility). It has been thoroughly researched and the process is strictly controlled. Electric stunning doesn't work reliably for cattle, so they use captive bolt guns.

Electric stunning is a MAF requiment for cattle, captive bolt is avaliable for when things go wrong, Having been at a cattle slaughterhouse in the past week, and on and off for a number of years this has been the standard practice, Im pretty sure that during the stunning process an Electroencephalogram (EEG) isn't done as the key here is to stun the animal and bleed it out quickly before adrenaline in the system reaches the muscles and toughens the meat, if you going to waste time doing an EEG on a sheep to make sure it's stunned correctly then it's too late, it's recovered from the stunning and running around really pissed off!

That said, if someone was to get into a NZ sheep slaughterhouse in peak season, with several chains operating (something like 4,000 sheep per chain per day) and shoot a hi definition video, it probably wouldn't do a lot for the meat industry. While clean and efficient it certainly is, the sight of hundreds of twitching dangling carcasses bleeding onto the "blood ramp" as they slowly move up into the works is quite a sight. I'm a determined and normally happy carnivore - but when I've visited these sites, meat is off the menu for lunch for me. OTOH, I had no problems killing and butchering deer etc in my hunting days. The horror (IMO) of the killing room is in the scale of it.

It is quite an eye opening exercise, although not actually been involved in the slaughter of cattle, but repairs of the equipnment and seeing what happens when the process goes wrong......(i've a few stories to tell that would horrify people).

blakamin

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#992024 21-Feb-2014 21:30

You gotta love the way Muslims and Jews have the religious views to food, but then try to kill each other.

:/

Fred99

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#992026 21-Feb-2014 21:33

gregmcc:

Electric stunning is a MAF requiment for cattle, captive bolt is avaliable for when things go wrong, Having been at a cattle slaughterhouse in the past week, and on and off for a number of years this has been the standard practice, Im pretty sure that during the stunning process an Electroencephalogram (EEG) isn't done as the key here is to stun the animal and bleed it out quickly before adrenaline in the system reaches the muscles and toughens the meat, if you going to waste time doing an EEG on a sheep to make sure it's stunned correctly then it's too late, it's recovered from the stunning and running around really pissed off!

OK - it's been a few years since I've been in a slaughterhouse - so from what you say things may have probably changed. Captive bolt was used in the past- because stunning wasn't considered reliably effective. EEG use would be for research, not on a production line. (can't say it's research work I'd enjoy).
NZ abattoir methods are under intense scrutiny all the time. Our trading "partners" would cut our water off very quickly if our animal welfare standards weren't world class - and usually much better than the domestic standards (or enforcement of those standards) in the countries to which we export.

MikeB4

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#992055 21-Feb-2014 22:21

blakamin: You gotta love the way Muslims and Jews have the religious views to food, but then try to kill each other.

:/

Others try to kill each other without the food beliefs.