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Topic # 182578 22-Oct-2015 09:14
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Well well well, I wondered how they did it.

Heather du Plessis-Allen would have us believe she "made up" a firearms licence number and sent it to Gun City on the from and they just sent her a gun.

No she didn't, she used the name, firearms licence and credit card of a person who already had their details and firearms licence registered with Gun City and had the Gun sent to her.

So, so far no problem. But the naughty bit was to fill out the "police" section of the form and forge those details.

The end result is the person whose firearm licence they used got the gun (he was there) so he is in legal possession but the way he got it was illegal.





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  Reply # 1410853 22-Oct-2015 09:24
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I think she will be prosecuted , I feel though that this is a ratings stunt that may backfire.




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  Reply # 1410855 22-Oct-2015 09:25
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Let me correct you - 

She uses fictitious name, fictitious gun license (this happen to be correctly guessed) - they can only check whether the gun license is correct or no, but they don't have the ability to match up the details.

She also uses fictitious police name, ID and signature.





 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1410860 22-Oct-2015 09:30
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nakedmolerat: Let me correct you - 

She uses fictitious name, fictitious gun license (this happen to be correctly guessed) - they can only check whether the gun license is correct or no, but they don't have the ability to match up the details.

She also uses fictitious police name, ID and signature.


No she didn't, I'm looking at a copy of her form right now, It is not a fictitious name and it is a matching firearms licence number

Gun City makes you send them a colour photocopy of your licence the first time you purchase




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  Reply # 1410864 22-Oct-2015 09:34
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The Gun City owner has got very mad about this by the looks of it (promising a private prosecution).

I don't see it as a problem with Gun City's processes, more a loophole that can (and has apparently) be easily closed with the police approval.

I think She may be skirting close to a police prosecution on this, I wouldn't imagine them being happy with the falsification of a Policeman. I suspect nothing will come of it as it can be argued it was in the public interest, and the Police have changed their procedures because of it.

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  Reply # 1410865 22-Oct-2015 09:37
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the Police should fix their systems rather than prosecuting the messenger



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  Reply # 1410866 22-Oct-2015 09:37
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trig42: The Gun City owner has got very mad about this by the looks of it (promising a private prosecution).

I don't see it as a problem with Gun City's processes, more a loophole that can (and has apparently) be easily closed with the police approval.

I think She may be skirting close to a police prosecution on this, I wouldn't imagine them being happy with the falsification of a Policeman. I suspect nothing will come of it as it can be argued it was in the public interest, and the Police have changed their procedures because of it.


"The public interest" is not a defence.

I hope the person who provided his firearms licence details to her loses it. He is clearly not a "fit and proper" person to hold a licence.




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  Reply # 1410869 22-Oct-2015 09:41
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nathan: the Police should fix their systems rather than prosecuting the messenger


A person with a firearms licence ordered a gun on line and got it...

Yep he didn't get the signature of a police officer on the form like he should have. So the Police have told the gun stores that all forms will be send by them direct from the station. Not a bad idea, as long as they don't sit on them for days.




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  Reply # 1410871 22-Oct-2015 09:42
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mdooher:
No she didn't, I'm looking at a copy of her form right now, It is not a fictitious name and it is a matching firearms licence number


Where does it says the name is not fictitious? I gather you are looking at whaleoil and even there, nothing says she is using a real name - only real gun license?

trig42: I don't see it as a problem with Gun City's processes, more a loophole that can (and has apparently) be easily closed with the police approval.


Same, i don't see it as the business fault. More of the process. The fact this has been changed to accommodate this issue kinda prove the point.





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  Reply # 1410872 22-Oct-2015 09:42
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I struggle to understand how falsifying documents (breaking the law) to order a gun,  is any different to breaking into someones house (breaking the law) and stealing a gun.



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  Reply # 1410874 22-Oct-2015 09:44
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nakedmolerat:
mdooher:
No she didn't, I'm looking at a copy of her form right now, It is not a fictitious name and it is a matching firearms licence number


Where does it says the name is not fictitious? I gather you are looking at whaleoil and even there, nothing says she is using a real name - only real gun license?

trig42: I don't see it as a problem with Gun City's processes, more a loophole that can (and has apparently) be easily closed with the police approval.


Same, i don't see it as the business fault. More of the process. The fact this has been changed to accommodate this issue kinda prove the point.


He works for TV3... unless they have fictitious employees




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  Reply # 1410876 22-Oct-2015 09:48
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nathan: the Police should fix their systems rather than prosecuting the messenger


They have, and it seems likely they won't. The Gun City owner (says he) will prosecute if the police don't. Given that it is indeed in the public interest to know that guns can be easily obtained illegally, I do not believe she should be prosecuted. But in any case the loophole they used has already been closed.




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  Reply # 1410877 22-Oct-2015 09:48
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I hope they prosecute her. I hope she is convicted. I hope she is sentenced to something punitive.

Forging a Police Constables details (real or fictitious) is a very serious matter as is buying a Firearm without a licence (whether the licence is legit as OP claimed or not). The fact is that HDPA was the intended recipient and she is not licensed (whether a licence holder is present in the room or not is moot, she was the intended recipient). 

Gun City was operating within the law as best they could, she was not (and I don't believe it falls in the 'greater good' category which she will try to claim). And now not only has she shown a loop hole in the system to millions but she's made it a shed load harder for honest purchasers to do it online now. One positive may be that it will spur on change in the law allowing Gun Shops to make further checks on purchasers, we can hope.

// Personal Opinion

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  Reply # 1410878 22-Oct-2015 09:49
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kiwitrc: I struggle to understand how falsifying documents (breaking the law) to order a gun,  is any different to breaking into someones house (breaking the law) and stealing a gun.


I think mainly because it's a lot less obvious, so a lot less likely to have been noticed.




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  Reply # 1410879 22-Oct-2015 09:49
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nathan: the Police should fix their systems rather than prosecuting the messenger


True, but presumably it was not necessary to actually break the law in order to prove it could be broken...





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  Reply # 1410882 22-Oct-2015 09:53
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I think she will (and should) be prosecuted - whether anything actually comes of that prosecution is another matter.

The whole thing smacks of a ratings stunt, rather than a true attempt to change the processes for the greater good.

Dragging the vendor's name into it when they apparently followed the correct process seems to be a beat-up too.

BUT - I am not privy to the law governing the sale of firearms (and am not particularly interested as I never have, nor never will have a firearms licence or desire to own firearms) and I am a little biased in that I don't particularly like HDA's style of reporting or presenting, so couldn't care less what happens to her.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this, but I will no doubt lose interest quite quickly.




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