Graffiti - Art or Crime?

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signz

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#19140 6-Feb-2008 19:01

I know this is a step away from geekiness but ....

I see graffiti (OK, tagging) as willful property damage,

Our area is relatively light but still enough that one neighbour has to repaint their fence (bordering a walkway) almost weekly. Areas just a few kms away are tagged continually.

So ... what's the consensus, people? Art or crime?

I don't advocate raising action to the point of violence from either side. I can feel for both sides of the recent stabbings. I was raised in a poor area and lots of people struggled for a sense of identity.

BUT tagging was something that just ... got my blood up and still does.

The worst kind is 'scratching' on glass. We were on the committee of the local sports club and planned to add big windows / bifold doors to the clubrooms but I just KNEW they would be scratched and you can't get rid of it. One local club is just covered in scratching and you can't see out the windows.

Someone convince me there is any merit to tagging ....

DS

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#108954 6-Feb-2008 19:16

Tariana Turia seems to think it is OK.... NewstalkZB

Boy, it got my blood running hot when I read that article. I think tagging should be banned completely. It can't be that hard to ban it can it. Where are the taggers getting the spray cans from?

Cheers....

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

signz

95 posts

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#108958 6-Feb-2008 19:35

Hmmm... maybe a letter to Ms Turia is my first step.

I think it is part of the HUGE tolderance we have to crime in NZ due to a shortage of police resource.

Our car was parked on the street one night and another vehicle smashed into it, was jammed under it and our car had to be lifted up so the other vehicle could be extracted. Police apparently attended (according to a neighbour... we were in bed and heard nothing).

"Apparently" because they never checked the registered owner database and contacted us. I went to the police station the next day and there was no record of it on the police database ... that the constable could FIND. He spent 20 minutes fishing around. Nothing ... he tried but the database would not let him thoroughly search ... he had to page through 1,000s of incident reports over the last 48 hours.

The story that came out about the dairy owner that rang the police to report that some kid had stolen a bottle of Coke and the guy was told to bugger off ... not enough time. THAT pisses me off. THAT is why there is nobody to discourage tagging.

I remember when the harbour bridge speed limit was dropped a few years ago. The next day the police commissioner was quoted as saying that they did not have the resources to police it ... traffic conditions would control speed.

My wife is scared of flying but does it when required. I keep telling her the roads are FAR more dangerous. So on the way to the airport last year to deliver her to a flight we had ... an incident.

We had just left the Manukau bridge, 2 lanes in either direction. We were doing about 80k (100 zone ...) and traffic was reasonably heavy ... not too many gaps. I looked in my mirror and saw a guy doing at least double our speed coming up behind us (we were last in the line of traffic, left lane).

The guy was soon up behind us but did not slow .. just dived down our left onto the grass verge, slid slideways at 150+, dived into a hole in the traffic. I was on 111 in about 3 seconds with the number plate. It took 10 mintues for them to get to the "What was the number plate" question. I gave it. "Sorry, stolen car". They asked me to follow it! You are kidding, right? By the time they got to the "follow him" bit he was MILES away. If they had asked for the plate first (and Mrs Nervous wasn't in the car) then maybe but where were they going to find a car to help out?

NZ police are understaffed and this leads to all sorts of issues.

Please, do not take offence (OK, if you have to) but Auckland drivers are terrible - absolute CRAP - all because you can do whatever you like and never get caught. Other drivers won't even toot you because they are too polite / scared!

So, finding a way to solve tagging is NOT going to be police driven.

DS

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#108959 6-Feb-2008 19:36

They can tag on their own house, car or property. As long as its thiers - I don't care.

However I don't want to see my property or public property tagged because Mr wannabe gangster has a small penis, and the only way he can express himself is by spraying flith on others property!

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signz

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#108962 6-Feb-2008 19:51

Maybe "size" needs to be the part of the message. This was very well received in Aussie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqWO7fzwSLM

DS

riahon

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#108963 6-Feb-2008 19:55

I've seen some very impressive graffiti art. There was a tribute to Sir Ed which was amazing. This wall always has different graffiti art and it always impresses me. If I assume that this was sanctioned by the owner then that is art.

Tagging is unauthorised and is just some sort of scribble which I dont even understand, it could be that they cant write their own name, who knows. Dogs and cat mark their territory with their scent - this is probably the only logic I can come up with as to why these guys do it. I must say that tagging has been here as long as I can remember but recently the media have brought it more into the limelight, it would be interesting to see whether the media has given the attention these criminals were actually wanting. Go the media!

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#108967 6-Feb-2008 20:16

taggers are scum but no one should be killed over it. There are new brick houses that have been built by the southern motorway near manurewa and they have been tagged in the last week by some low life scum that needs to be taught a lesson. I will get pictures and post them on geekzone to show how bad it is.

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cokemaster

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#108970 6-Feb-2008 20:25

John, "Not allowed to breed" or "Removed from the gene pool" sound much more PC.

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tonyhughes

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#108972 6-Feb-2008 20:32

Crime. If TT is fine with it, I hope her house, car and office(s) get tagged until she screams and cries.

wazzageek

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#108978 6-Feb-2008 21:38

TT ... is this not the same politician who thought is acceptable to have 15 or 16 yos breeding? And you expect me to take her seriously?

There is no such thing as personal responsibility in this country anymore - and this is evident from the top down.

Graffiti on another persons property without their permission is still a crime.

I will not be mourning the death of someone who engages in destructive, criminal activity.

signz

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#108992 6-Feb-2008 23:05

riahon: I've seen some very impressive graffiti art. There was a tribute to Sir Ed which was amazing. This wall always has different graffiti art and it always impresses me. If I assume that this was sanctioned by the owner then that is art.

Tagging is unauthorised and is just some sort of scribble ....!

I think that summarises things ...

We have some lovely "art" that does not seem to get destroyed by taggers because they respect that it is art. Whether you like the stuff "street artists" create or not it is art if it is commissioned and / or authorised.

I grew up around the time of the Vietnam war (OK, I was little ...) and Sydney was covered in graffiti but it had a message to tell (anti-war, anti-US, Kilroy was here).

What we have today is people's signatures.

A kid died recently in Mt Eden area (no idea what from ... not related) and he was a tagger. As my nephew was driving along with his parents he was commenting "Oh, there's another one of Bob's" (name changed to protect me 'cause I have no idea of name). The point is that people KNOW each other's tags. It's their only claim to fame. They'll never be famous authors or artists or rap singers but ... "Remember that bus we did back in '08?"

It's still wrong and it still makes me angry but you can kinda see the logic.

My response? Get a bloody job! It's very hard to be out tagging at 2AM every night if you have to be at work by 8.

DS

mckenndk

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#108994 6-Feb-2008 23:51

I can't stand people that go around spraying grafitti around the place.

I do volunteer work at a railway society and when the carriages get spray painted is a real pain as non of us get paid to clean up the mess.
Was impressed when I live in Manuaku for a year when the council repainted our fence for nothing as it was covered in the filth, and the bus shelter always had the glass replace every month or so as it was either deeply scratched or the glass had been smashed.

There was even once I was driving up the southern motorway and there was work being done to widen the road or something to that effect and they had concrete barriers up with wooden boards on top to help sheild the work site from road noise I guess, these were hard up against the side of the road with no room for error.
But early one morning on the way to work I almost hit some looser who seemed to find it more important to spray his filth on the barrier than think he will be killed if people don't see him in the dark.

I would perfer they just spray their expensive cars or if they get caught their cars should be sprayed and see what they think of it. The value of the car will half in seconds.
The problem with spraying their houses is that most of them don't own the houses and the ones in government housing we would have to foot the bill to have it fixed one way or another as tax payers.

So I would perfer that something they value very highly be sprayed with the horrible art.

And ban spray cans as well.

that is my B****ing for the month done

Dion

PS I think a good few years at a mining camp in Siberia will sort them out

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Fossie

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#109000 7-Feb-2008 00:19

Lets go tag her house and see how she feels. Anyone caught tagging should be tasered.

sleemanj

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#109001 7-Feb-2008 00:46

signz:
I see graffiti (OK, tagging) as willful property damage,

I think there should be a clear separation here, Graffiti is one thing, Tagging is something different. At least in my view.

Graffiti is something where the artist has actually put some thought and effort into thier work, I can see the artistic merit in that. There are "graffiti" around that I would be proud to have on my wall. Not necessarily elaborate works of art, sometimes a simple statement can drive home an idea and be meritorious in itself.

Tagging however is nothing more ingenuous than a dog cocking it's leg, it's a territory mark, nothing more, nothing less, there is no thought process, no statement, no artistic merit at all, it's just vandalism.

Taggers need to be dealt with. Perhaps if a tagger is caught they should be sentanced to a month working repainting tagged buildings, not only does it make them think twice about tagging again, but it also cleans up some of the mess.

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Mayhem

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#109010 7-Feb-2008 09:18

I think that we as a nation needs to get tougher on child crime not just tagging. They should ban the sales of spray paint to anyone under the age of 18. If they are caught tagging or worse they and their parents should be made responsible, family group conferences are just not cutting it.

If they (or their families) had to pay for the damage they are causing then just maybe they would think a little harder the next time they decide to do it.......

I thought you were responsible for your Childs actions till they turned 18-19 and it seems that none of the parents of these kids are taking responsibility.

I know that you believe that you understand what you think i said, but i am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what i meant!

alvstar2001

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#109065 7-Feb-2008 13:01

these pricks tagging only tag for one reason only, and that is for recognition
its their signature, and suprisingly they travel oceans just to print thea name somewhere.
ive bin bought up in south auckland, in mangere and now residing in manurewa and its disgusting to see the amounts of grafitti on fences, buildings, businessses, even cars?
it can get me so fired up that i dont kno what i would do myself if i caught someone "hittïng"my fence.
it only costs us time effort and emotion when it affects us, oh and money! alot! especially if u have the 'whitest'fence on the street..
what is the council/government doing for us?
i see all advertising in the world to recruit police officers, but it only appears they're only traffic cops, or when im driving past a police base, u see all thea cars parked up? and who knows whats happening inside (donuts n coffee perhaps?)

so frustrating...

anyways, can u make any promises keys?
lol

alvstar2001

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