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99 posts

Master Geek

#536275 21-Oct-2011 21:20

I have changed many providers but always had issues with speed and cost (i was with slingshot before:- horrible speed trust me)then i moved to orcon that was even more worst, but i was happy with Nznet from last 9 months, it was always good for me,
I guess every business has a bad time, but we should learn to trust.

I agree, I've been on Telecom Big Time, Telecom 20gb plan, Slingshot Unlimited, WorldNet Unlimited and NZNet and all of those providers before NZNet sucked in terms of speed. Maximum 100kb/s for a download even though the line speed was reading 8-9mbps.

With NZNet on the very same line I get 15mpbs sometimes and stuff actually downloads at a rate that it should (1mb/s).

nickb800

2719 posts

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#536284 21-Oct-2011 21:45

If I were a NZNet customer, the question i would be asking myself is am I happy dealing with a business that deals with its suppliers like they have. The allegations leveled here seem plausible (given the industry knowledge here and the legal ruling against them on the superdockets case) that they have switched transit providers several times after these providers demanded payments on their debts.

Speed & cheapness aside, do you want to deal with a company that treats their suppliers like that, and treats their customers like they have - not communicating until several days into a massive outage.

hotkiwi

69 posts

Master Geek

#536286 21-Oct-2011 21:48

freitasm:
hotkiwi:Yes, I think that is a worry and the moderator of this forum does not mind his solliciting and advertising here. Another worry !

In what sense?

Note that the post was removed and the user warned not to solicit in the forums.

If you folks are implying any relationship with ANY provider, then I suggest you just stop posting here.

I had not seen that the post was removed, but also looking now can not see where he is warned not to sollicit in the forums.
I do not object against talking about individual providers but hated to see that someone was actually solliciting on behalf of a certain provider and that you made the remark to one of the posters here that that particular person was trying to get him as a customer, once more repeating the provider he was working for.
That you removed that post was missed by me, sorry for that, but where is the warning you talk about?

freitasm

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#536287 21-Oct-2011 21:49

hotkiwi:
DonGould: Cheap - In New Zealand, it is my view that the word has two meanings.

1. Reflection of quality.
2. Reflection of price.

Thanks for this Don, excellent and to the point overview.
There were some NZNet bashers here who at the same time ridiculed the people that had them as a provider. they called themselves 'IT professionals'. Good to hear now from a professional with a professional look on things.
Cheaper is not necessarily bad, and 'you get what you pay for' is a stupid adagium. Look for example at @degrees. A cheaper telco company with excellent customer service, a great product and according to the self-crowned IT professionals on this forum stupid customers as they go for the best deal.

Thanks again.

While Don has written a good post, I think there's something missing here. First he says " arrogant and pompous IT professionals jump on the like a pack of wolves tearing them apart and driving customers back to their own companies."

Muppet and Mak (which are the ones holding opposing views) did not anywhere in this discussion ask for people to move to their ISPs, simply because they did not even disclose which ISP they work for.

Second, it's come to my attention that in the last two days people who are apparently related or employed by NZNet have been posting in this discussion, not to help customers, but to prevent customers moving to other ISPs by providing conflicting information about service status, or about the reliability of these other providers. These include users "support", "support88" and "hana".

I'm not saying this is sanctioned by NZNet, but could be some overzealous employee.

hotkiwi:
hana: This guy above does he work for slingshot? I have been their customer and have always experienced slow speed even if you ring them they have no reply. can you look into this matter if possible before giving false hope to your new customers. Thanks

Yes, I think that is a worry and the moderator of this forum does not mind his solliciting and advertising here. Another worry !

As above, "hana" is not a trustworthy person to be quoted. And it seems "hotkiwi" decided to side with a brand new user with three posts, instead of siding with Geekzone... "hotkiwi" has been a member since 2005 but it seems a non-trusted newcomer has more power than the community.

freitasm

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#536288 21-Oct-2011 21:51

hotkiwi:
freitasm:
hotkiwi:Yes, I think that is a worry and the moderator of this forum does not mind his solliciting and advertising here. Another worry !

In what sense?

Note that the post was removed and the user warned not to solicit in the forums.

If you folks are implying any relationship with ANY provider, then I suggest you just stop posting here.

I had not seen that the post was removed, but also looking now can not see where he is warned not to sollicit in the forums.

It was a private warning. Why do people think we have to send warnings in plain view?

hotkiwi: I do not object against talking about individual providers but hated to see that someone was actually solliciting on behalf of a certain provider and that you made the remark to one of the posters here that that particular person was trying to get him as a customer, once more repeating the provider he was working for.

My remark was because the user seemingly didn't read the thread, and missed the post where MLT posted his email.

hotkiwi: That you removed that post was missed by me, sorry for that, but where is the warning you talk about?

Again, it was a private warning. Why do people think we have to send warnings in plain view?

hotkiwi

69 posts

Master Geek

#536292 21-Oct-2011 22:00

freitasm:
hotkiwi:
DonGould: Cheap - In New Zealand, it is my view that the word has two meanings.

1. Reflection of quality.
2. Reflection of price.

Thanks for this Don, excellent and to the point overview.
There were some NZNet bashers here who at the same time ridiculed the people that had them as a provider. they called themselves 'IT professionals'. Good to hear now from a professional with a professional look on things.
Cheaper is not necessarily bad, and 'you get what you pay for' is a stupid adagium. Look for example at @degrees. A cheaper telco company with excellent customer service, a great product and according to the self-crowned IT professionals on this forum stupid customers as they go for the best deal.

Thanks again.

While Don has written a good post, I think there's something missing here. First he says " arrogant and pompous IT professionals jump on the like a pack of wolves tearing them apart and driving customers back to their own companies."

Muppet and Mak (which are the ones holding opposing views) did not anywhere in this discussion ask for people to move to their ISPs, simply because they did not even disclose which ISP they work for.

Second, it's come to my attention that in the last two days people who are apparently related or employed by NZNet have been posting in this discussion, not to help customers, but to prevent customers moving to other ISPs by providing conflicting information about service status, or about the reliability of these other providers. These include users "support", "support88" and "hana".

hotkiwi:
hana: This guy above does he work for slingshot? I have been their customer and have always experienced slow speed even if you ring them they have no reply. can you look into this matter if possible before giving false hope to your new customers. Thanks

Yes, I think that is a worry and the moderator of this forum does not mind his solliciting and advertising here. Another worry !

As above, "hana" is not a trustworthy person to be quoted. And it seems "hotkiwi" decided to side with a brand new user with three posts, instead of siding with Geekzone... "hotkiwi" has been a member since 2005 but it seems a non-trusted newcomer has more power than the community.

Wow, this is disturbing news. Nonetheless, the old boys postings by Muppet and Mak and Ed have not been helpful for those, hurt by the NZNet disaster. As customers of that company we were tarnished with arguments like 'you want to go cheap, now reap the consequences', so to say, and a lot of beating on their own chest that IT professionals know best. I checked and do not agree that NZNet is a cheapo ISP and I did not go to the for a lot of bang for the bucks, as I have extensively pointed out. So, yes, as customers we were hit by the arrogance of people like Muppet and Ed. Just being honest.
As an example also the remark that as IT professionals they would know better what customers like and dislike than a large consumer.org.nz survey that is published on a yearly basis.

So, yes, as someone who was often on these forums to read since 2005 and now really got active, I feel brushed off, and realize that this is a forum for IT specialists, and not for users.

That I chose the side of a newcomer, and not by default side with the old boys club can, in my opinion, not be held against me.

freitasm

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#536294 21-Oct-2011 22:02

hotkiwi: That I chose the side of a newcomer, and not by default side with the old boys club can, in my opinion, not be held against me.

There's a reason why we give "Trusted" badges to some people, and not many around have those. We base "trust" in their industry knowledge, willingness to help, commentary and if we have actually met these trusted users in person.

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hotkiwi

69 posts

Master Geek

#536298 21-Oct-2011 22:17

freitasm:
hotkiwi: That I chose the side of a newcomer, and not by default side with the old boys club can, in my opinion, not be held against me.

There's a reason why we give "Trusted" badges to some people, and not many around have those. We base "trust" in their industry knowledge, willingness to help, commentary and if we have actually met these trusted users in person.

I understand that. That is exactly what I mean with old boys club. Inside knowledge-people knowing each other. You are unlikely to meet me, as I am not active in the IT business. So i will not receive such a badge. i am a health care professional and I may see you in my function as a doctor, but not related to the topics we discuss here. Doctors are often accused of siding with each other, even if they wrong someone, but it is not different here. I had hoped that, as an observing and intervening moderator, you would also be slightly upset by how especially Muppet and Ed ridiculed the people that are (or in my case were) with NZNet and made them feel stupid. So much for you judging them on their commentary. But if that is the industry standard then so be it and I will happily refrain from reading this forum again.

freitasm

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#536299 21-Oct-2011 22:19

hotkiwi:
freitasm:
hotkiwi: That I chose the side of a newcomer, and not by default side with the old boys club can, in my opinion, not be held against me.

There's a reason why we give "Trusted" badges to some people, and not many around have those. We base "trust" in their industry knowledge, willingness to help, commentary and if we have actually met these trusted users in person.

I understand that. That is exactly what I mean with old boys club. Inside knowledge-people knowing each other. You are unlikely to meet me, as I am not active in the IT business. So i will not receive such a badge. i am a health care professional and I may see you in my function as a doctor, but not related to the topics we discuss here. Doctors are often accused of siding with each other, even if they wrong someone, but it is not different here. I had hoped that, as an observing and intervening moderator, you would also be slightly upset by how especially Muppet and Ed ridiculed the people that are (or in my case were) with NZNet and made them feel stupid. So much for you judging them on their commentary. But if that is the industry standard then so be it and I will happily refrain from reading this forum again.

We have a couple of doctors who are "Trusted" here, because they came to our previous Geekzone Pizza events and we met there...

You have to read muppet's posts all over to understand he's sarcastic.

hotkiwi

69 posts

Master Geek

#536301 21-Oct-2011 22:26

freitasm:
hotkiwi:
freitasm:
hotkiwi: That I chose the side of a newcomer, and not by default side with the old boys club can, in my opinion, not be held against me.

There's a reason why we give "Trusted" badges to some people, and not many around have those. We base "trust" in their industry knowledge, willingness to help, commentary and if we have actually met these trusted users in person.

I understand that. That is exactly what I mean with old boys club. Inside knowledge-people knowing each other. You are unlikely to meet me, as I am not active in the IT business. So i will not receive such a badge. i am a health care professional and I may see you in my function as a doctor, but not related to the topics we discuss here. Doctors are often accused of siding with each other, even if they wrong someone, but it is not different here. I had hoped that, as an observing and intervening moderator, you would also be slightly upset by how especially Muppet and Ed ridiculed the people that are (or in my case were) with NZNet and made them feel stupid. So much for you judging them on their commentary. But if that is the industry standard then so be it and I will happily refrain from reading this forum again.

We have a couple of doctors who are "Trusted" here, because they came to our previous Geekzone Pizza events and we met there...

You have to read muppet's posts all over to understand he's sarcastic.

Thanks Mauricio, I appreciate what you are saying.
Sarcasm can hurt people who are genuinely troubled by, in this case an ISP service, and in such moments it is not a nice trait. They deserve some sympathy, also from a moderator.
I see your point, and would like to leave it at that.

thanks again, keep up the good work.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#536302 21-Oct-2011 22:28

freitasm: While Don has written a good post, I think there's something missing here. First he says " arrogant and pompous IT professionals jump on the like a pack of wolves tearing them apart and driving customers back to their own companies."

Muppet and Mak (which are the ones holding opposing views) did not anywhere in this discussion ask for people to move to their ISPs, simply because they did not even disclose which ISP they work for.

Firstly, thanks MF for saying I wrote a good post. I was hoping to get a balance of comment and a bit of an enjoyable read for readers.

I wonder if I was a little strong with some of the words.

I would like to note that my comments were not directed at Muppet or Mak as a personal attack.

I would like to say that I only skimmed the content before making a comment.

I made a comment directed at the 'cheap' comment because I noted some argument between people over this point.

Just for the record, I was directly calling some staff from some providers both pompous and arrogant, I'm sure that was more than obvious.

What is not obvious it that my comment was NOT directed at Muppet and I have no idea who Mak even is.

The comment really was a shot across the bow of a number of providers and no specific individual.

I would like to say that I am less than impressed by providers who did directly engage users to become customers, and I think that feeling was more than clear.

I noted with interest that this issue did not show up on the NZ Nog list this week with a shout out to get this little provider back on line or at least get the customers back on line.

At the end of the day, in my view, there are a bunch of consumers out there who have paid their accounts and taken off line because of commerical arrangements beyond their control.

The interests have been put second and dealt with unprofessionally.

It is my view that the way this issue has been dealt with, as an industry is a disgrace and we should all be ashamed!

As a member of this community, all be it in a very small way, I am ashamed as much as any of you should be.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

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DonGould

3892 posts

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#536307 21-Oct-2011 22:31

freitasm:
There's a reason why we give "Trusted" badges to some people, and not many around have those. We base "trust" in their industry knowledge, willingness to help, commentary and if we have actually met these trusted users in person.

/me wonders if he'll ever earn a trusted badge.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DonGould

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#536308 21-Oct-2011 22:37

freitasm:

You have to read muppet's posts all over to understand he's sarcastic.

Can I used the word 'bitch' here in New Zealand on Geekzone?

Muppet is one of the funnies on line guys I knew. He's also from Australia and worked for a number of years for one of the worlds most respected ISPs.

I spent 6 years in Australia, and to call someone in the ISP industry, in the right circles, a 'bitch' is both a mark of respect and of a person who shows quality and humor.

Muppet spends most of the day idling in the GZ irc channel and is always there offering very technical people assistance (don't ask him how to set the password on your ADSL modem, you're likely to meet his sarcastic tounge fast!).

He is good value and I can't speak highly enough of him.

D

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

Talkiet

4793 posts

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#536331 21-Oct-2011 23:27

hotkiwi:
DonGould: Cheap - In New Zealand, it is my view that the word has two meanings.

1. Reflection of quality.
2. Reflection of price.

Thanks for this Don, excellent and to the point overview.
There were some NZNet bashers here who at the same time ridiculed the people that had them as a provider. they called themselves 'IT professionals'. Good to hear now from a professional with a professional look on things.
Cheaper is not necessarily bad, and 'you get what you pay for' is a stupid adagium. Look for example at @degrees. A cheaper telco company with excellent customer service, a great product and according to the self-crowned IT professionals on this forum stupid customers as they go for the best deal.

Thanks again.

You're making some pretty grand and offensive insinuations there. You just said the IT professionals in this forum think 2 degrees customers are stupid. That's laughably wrong.

As it happens, I have a 2 degrees sim in one of my phones, and I have 2 ADSL connections here at home - one of which is from a budget provider.

You've moved on from NZnet, following one of the best plans which is to vote with your wallet - great. How about not worrying too much about the opinions of people with vast amounts more experience and inside knowledge of the industry and this particular incident.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

michaelmurfy

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#536335 21-Oct-2011 23:30

DonGould:
freitasm:

You have to read muppet's posts all over to understand he's sarcastic.

Can I used the word 'bitch' here in New Zealand on Geekzone?

Muppet is one of the funnies on line guys I knew. He's also from Australia and worked for a number of years for one of the worlds most respected ISPs.

I spent 6 years in Australia, and to call someone in the ISP industry, in the right circles, a 'bitch' is both a mark of respect and of a person who shows quality and humor.

Muppet spends most of the day idling in the GZ irc channel and is always there offering very technical people assistance (don't ask him how to set the password on your ADSL modem, you're likely to meet his sarcastic tounge fast!).

He is good value and I can't speak highly enough of him.

D

Strongly agree with you here, I always enjoy reading Muppet's posts / blog posts - he is good value to Geekzone.

However, instead of turning this into a "ISP Bashing" thread / a fight between users, we should possibly get on track with this a wee bit...

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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