HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited - a warning

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Networkn
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#1590908 13-Jul-2016 11:47

dejadeadnz:

Yes, you can complain to the Commission even if you aren't personally affected.

Done! (Not because I am singling out UI, but because I think it's a very clear and interesting case and I'd like to see if "fair use" is a reasonable defense.

hio77

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#1590909 13-Jul-2016 11:48

networkn:

Is it possible to lodge a complaint with the ComCom if you aren't personally affected? Seems a perfect "test" case.

dejadeadnz:

Yes, you can complain to the Commission even if you aren't personally affected.

Oh boy, here we go~

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networkn

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#1590910 13-Jul-2016 11:50

hio77:

networkn:

Is it possible to lodge a complaint with the ComCom if you aren't personally affected? Seems a perfect "test" case.

dejadeadnz:

Yes, you can complain to the Commission even if you aren't personally affected.

Oh boy, here we go~

At most I imagine he would get a slap over the wrist if they can't prove intent, and if he is following standards held by multiple other companies, I'd expect a ruling, and a short turn around time to rectify. Ongoing breaches after a warning are likely to see him in a lot more trouble.

meesham

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#1590911 13-Jul-2016 11:53

I found this in the T&C under the fair use section (http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms):

We reserve the right to ask you to find a new provider for users that frequently use significantly more data than the majority of the unlimited users and/or use their internet service in a way that negatively affects the experience of other users.

and

We may ask you to find a new service provider within 7 days after giving you notice under this Fair Use Policy where in our reasonable opinion your use of our services is excessive and/or unreasonable by materially exceeding estimated usage patterns over any month.

Was that there yesterday?

dejadeadnz

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#1590912 13-Jul-2016 11:54

networkn:

At most I imagine he would get a slap over the wrist if they can't prove intent, and if he is following standards held by multiple other companies, I'd expect a ruling, and a short turn around time to rectify. Ongoing breaches after a warning are likely to see him in a lot more trouble.

One thing I'll say (as I previously noted) is that UI is actually doing an objectively worse -- in fact much worse -- job of conveying the fair use policy than most of its competitors.

networkn

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#1590914 13-Jul-2016 12:00

dejadeadnz:

networkn:

At most I imagine he would get a slap over the wrist if they can't prove intent, and if he is following standards held by multiple other companies, I'd expect a ruling, and a short turn around time to rectify. Ongoing breaches after a warning are likely to see him in a lot more trouble.

One thing I'll say (as I previously noted) is that UI is actually doing an objectively worse -- in fact much worse -- job of conveying the fair use policy than most of its competitors.

My main issue was with the "explanation" given, not really addressing the issues, and not setting a course of action. As you said, putting this down to bad housekeeping was very poor.

richms

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#1590916 13-Jul-2016 12:03

meesham:

I found this in the T&C under the fair use section (http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms):

We reserve the right to ask you to find a new provider for users that frequently use significantly more data than the majority of the unlimited users and/or use their internet service in a way that negatively affects the experience of other users.

and

We may ask you to find a new service provider within 7 days after giving you notice under this Fair Use Policy where in our reasonable opinion your use of our services is excessive and/or unreasonable by materially exceeding estimated usage patterns over any month.

Was that there yesterday?

No,

I do not think that a couple of hundred gigs is signifigantly more, its a bit more.

And they have to have a reasonable opinion that your use is excessive. I do not think that 3-400 gigs a month is excessive, and in no way should that sort of usage cause problems for others on the network.

What IMO should be classed as causing problems for others is if someone finds themselves the target of a DOS attack regularly, gets IP ranges blacklisted and other things. There should be no way that a user using a circuit within the capacities of it should affect other users on a properly dimensioned upstream. This is purely cost saving and things must be getting desperate at the HD empire.

It really seems like HD are at the bottom of the hole with their spade going full speed with the digging by changing the terms like that.

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sbiddle

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#1590918 13-Jul-2016 12:05

meesham:

I found this in the T&C under the fair use section (http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms):

We reserve the right to ask you to find a new provider for users that frequently use significantly more data than the majority of the unlimited users and/or use their internet service in a way that negatively affects the experience of other users.

and

We may ask you to find a new service provider within 7 days after giving you notice under this Fair Use Policy where in our reasonable opinion your use of our services is excessive and/or unreasonable by materially exceeding estimated usage patterns over any month.

Was that there yesterday?

waybackmachine has it cached from March https://web.archive.org/web/20160328223201/http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms

richms

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#1590924 13-Jul-2016 12:13

sbiddle:

meesham:

Was that there yesterday?

waybackmachine has it cached from March https://web.archive.org/web/20160328223201/http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms

Even worse. They have been planning this from at least march then and not had the decency to contact this user about their usage of the service at all.

Richard rich.ms

dejadeadnz

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#1590933 13-Jul-2016 12:39

Funny how UI Internet is all of a sudden so quiet....

michaelmurfy

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#1590942 13-Jul-2016 12:52

dejadeadnz:

Funny how UI Internet is all of a sudden so quiet....

In hospital with third degree burns?

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dejadeadnz

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#1590958 13-Jul-2016 13:23

Let me add some more to their third degree burns. Let's compare how Vodafone advertises unlimited broadband. VF was deliberately chosen because they have been frequently prosecuted for FTA breaches (and successfully at that), so they aren't exactly paragons of virtue. And if they are doing better than you.... oh wait, they are doing better than UI.

On their plan builder thing (http://www.vodafone.co.nz/broadband/vdsl/?data=80&speed=faster&phone=no&tv=no&onaccount=no), you can select your connection type and the unlimited plan. Right next to the button for unlimited data, there is a ^, which points to the following blurb immediately below:

^Unlimited broadband data for residential purposes only. Traffic management policy and terms apply. Exit fees may apply.

And then there is an (I forgot the technical term for this but you know what I mean) internal link to the same page called "Things to Know/Offer Summary" and right up top and only a few lines below that, there is a link to a separate Unlimited Broadband Terms and Conditions, which is more customer friendly, better written and with helpful suggestions on how to stay on-side with them and keep everyone happy. Note once again that I am not necessarily saying that VF here complies with the FTA, just that on a basic risk management and transparency level, they are doing much better than UI. And we all know they don't have the best track record when it comes to the Fair Trading Act.

/readying the popcorn

michaelmurfy

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#1590959 13-Jul-2016 13:23

Something else I noticed. There was people posting links to this thread on their Facebook and people talking about this thread also. Those posts have since been removed. A company with true transparency would respond with a statement, also this means that they've likely looked at this thread today, the response from @dejadeadnz and decided to put their heads under the blankets again hoping it all just goes away.

Just like any other HD post. Still can't take criticism and still post things like "There are many other recommendations if you scroll up" for example after hiding all the negatives and banning the people who posts negative remarks (along with likely disconnecting their broadband if I know Ben)...

dejadeadnz

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#1590964 13-Jul-2016 13:29

I am honestly finding this both a valuable public service and quite entertaining in terms of producing a dossier for my team on how not to do risk management/compliance. But I see on their Facebook page that they used to use a logo/tagline that goes like this:

Unlimited Internet - No Limits. No Catches. Just Broadband.

You can't make this stuff up.

Jedsdad

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#1590972 13-Jul-2016 13:46

I see the "Bush Lawyers" have come out of the woodwork for a rant.

I am reminded of the same thing with Geo-blocking on Netflix.

I note that the Telecommunications Disputes Resolution organisation allow for at least 5 working days if an ISP is going to suspend or disconnect a service so UI are not being overly draconian compared with others in that organisation.

Admittedly UI are not a member of that organisation but then there are other ISP's that are not either, and some of which have Fair Use Policies

Full Flavour for instance. Full Flavour say they have a Fair Use Policy but I cannot find it on their website.

Getting back to UI I will admit that they could have perhaps approached the customer to discuss the issue before giving 7 days notice of the disconnection.

If I was a UI customer I would like to know at least what my monthly usage was so I did not get into that situation.

Well thats my rant LOL

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