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Topic # 115758 5-Apr-2013 16:27
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Hi all

In the last week or so I've gone from being on an ADSL2 connection with interleaving on, to interleaving off to having a DIY master filter installed.
I'm in a cabinetised area around 200m by road from the cabinet.

Before the Master filter install my phone wiring was something like the below:

ETP-> Modem jack   -> Adsl Modem  (Dreytek Vigor 120) -> RT-N16 (PPPoE)
     -> Phone jack 1  -> Standard ADSL filter -> Phone
                             -> Phone jack 2 (daisy chain off the back of phone jack 1 wall socket to unused jack)
     -> Phone jack 3

The old wiring had a few Scotch Locs and few screw in connectors. with cabling twisted together to join it all together etc.

Really bad photo from my old Nokia or what it looked like before I started.



The new wiring is as below with Scotch Locs joining all wiring (input and 2 outputs off the master filter)

ETP->  Master Filter-> Modem jack -> Modem (Dreytek Vigor 120)
                                -> Phone jack 1 -> standard filter -> Phone
Phone Jack 1 & 2 retired (never used them)

The cable to the modem was standard phone with 2 pairs (blue/white, orange/white)
The modem is now connected to the master filter via Cat5e about 8 meters from the ETP

The ETP is the phone cable coming into the house and ending with all the phone wiring then piggybacked on top. Not like a box on the outside of the house onything fancy just a cable with the internal house wiring then attached.

The master splitter is a "DYNAMIX XDSL Master Wired in filter ADSL/ADSL2+/VDSL/VDSL2 "
Scotch locs were about 20 cents each and the Cat5e was $1.25m from JA Russell "retail" pricing.
Master filter was about $22 (PB Tech Easter sale)

Turning interleaving off ($5)
Total cost around $40 for all parts and turning interleaving off

So what improved?
Interleaving on to interleaving off -> (5% DS and 10% US speed increases).
Interleaving on -> Master Filter (8% DS and 34% US speed increases).
Interleaving off -> Master Filter (3% DS and 21% US speed increases).

As you can see the line stats were already quite decent before I started down the upgrade path. syncing at around 1.7Mbit DS and 950KB US.

Below are the screenshots and stats of my modem stats, speed tests and ping results.

Interleaving on
Modem details







Ping results

Pinging google.co.nz [203.97.30.155] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 203.97.30.155: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.155: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.155: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.155: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=61
Ping statistics for 203.97.30.155:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 36ms, Average = 35ms 

Pinging geekzone.co.nz [202.175.128.169] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=121 
Ping statistics for 202.175.128.169:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 36ms, Maximum = 37ms, Average = 36ms

Pinging pingtest.net [74.209.160.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=202ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=195ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=183ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=189ms TTL=53
Ping statistics for 74.209.160.10:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 183ms, Maximum = 202ms, Average = 192ms

Interleaving OFF

Modem stats





Ping Results
Pinging google.co.nz [203.97.30.163] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 203.97.30.163: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.163: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.163: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=61
Reply from 203.97.30.163: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=61
Ping statistics for 203.97.30.163:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 9ms 

Pinging geekzone.co.nz [202.175.128.169] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121
Reply from 202.175.128.169: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121
Ping statistics for 202.175.128.169:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 11ms

Pinging pingtest.net [74.209.160.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.209.160.10: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=53
Ping statistics for 74.209.160.10:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 158ms, Maximum = 158ms, Average = 158ms


Speed test
Using the Telstraclear speed test (http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/customer-zone/speedtest/)




Finally Interleaving Off with DIY Master filter

Modem Details







Ping
No real change from above

Speed test




Last Result:
Download Speed: 15561 kbps (1945.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1052 kbps (131.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 16 ms




CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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  Reply # 793951 5-Apr-2013 16:27
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.





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  Reply # 794370 6-Apr-2013 17:54
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Shot back under the house today this is the final wiring.
After the photo I sat the filter on a cross beam and put some plastic saddles on all sides to "keep it in place".




So i guess this goes to show even if you get decent sync rates a filter will help improve your line.




CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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  Reply # 794397 6-Apr-2013 20:28
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Good to see the improvement in your line.

My improvements (Cat 5E from etp to 1 outlet) did improve my sync rate a little bit, however, it seems much slower than it should be for the attenuation

 adsl status
 --------------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A) -----------
  DSL Modulation          : ADSL2+(G.992.5)
  State                   : SHOWTIME
  DS Actual Rate          : 14436923 bps   US Actual Rate       :  1021250 bps
  DS Attainable Rate      : 14296000 bps   US Attainable Rate   :  1021000 bps
  DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
  DS Interleave Depth     :      352       US Interleave Depth  :        1
  NE Current Attenuation  :        8 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :       12  dB
  DS actual PSD           :    17. 9 dB    US actual PSD        :    12. 1   dB
  ADSL Firmware Version   : 321311_A
 -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
  Far Current Attenuation :        3 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
  CO ITU Version[0]       : 00004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 0000434d
  DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >


and

adsl status image

Not quite sure what's going on there.


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  Reply # 794413 6-Apr-2013 22:12
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dolsen: DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >


dolsen: Not quite sure what's going on there.


It looks like you're on a Broadcom chipset. Try the firmware listed as "Alternative" on http://www.draytek.net.nz/draytek/downloads/

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  Reply # 794442 7-Apr-2013 00:28
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theEd:
dolsen: DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >


dolsen: Not quite sure what's going on there.


It looks like you're on a Broadcom chipset. Try the firmware listed as "Alternative" on http://www.draytek.net.nz/draytek/downloads/


The alternative firmware results in a lower sync rate.

--------------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A) -----------
   DSL Modulation          : ADSL2+(G.992.5)
   State                   : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 13970742 bps   US Actual Rate       :  1017291 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 13928000 bps   US Attainable Rate   :  1017000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :      128       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :        8 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :       12  dB
   DS actual PSD           :    17. 9 dB    US actual PSD        :    12. 1   dB
   ADSL Firmware Version   : 332201_A
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        4 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : 00004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 0000434d
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >

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  Reply # 794443 7-Apr-2013 00:35
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To be honest, it may just be due to the older Broadcom gear that you're getting a low sync rate. Are you in a non-cabinetised area?

dolsen: The alternative firmware results in a lower sync rate. 


Strange. That firmware's specifically tuned for Broadcom.

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  Reply # 794444 7-Apr-2013 00:45
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theEd: To be honest, it may just be due to the older Broadcom gear that you're getting a low sync rate. Are you in a non-cabinetised area?


Nope - fed from a whisper cabinet in Maungaraki.

Will be moving to a ufb area soon so I'm not too worried.

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  Reply # 794513 7-Apr-2013 10:03
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On my line a master filter gave me a whole 1 Mbit speed increase..




Regards,

Old3eyes




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  Reply # 794525 7-Apr-2013 11:01
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Try replace the cable from the ADSL wall outlet to the modem.

I had one when connected the loop attn was around 4 and dropped sync down to around 900KB.
Switched it out and resulted in the above of around 11 or 12.




CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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  Reply # 794534 7-Apr-2013 11:37
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dolsen: Good to see the improvement in your line.

My improvements (Cat 5E from etp to 1 outlet) did improve my sync rate a little bit, however, it seems much slower than it should be for the attenuation




Attenuation is only part of the bigger picture. You really need to see a bitloading graph to really see what's going on.

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  Reply # 794539 7-Apr-2013 11:45
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sbiddle: Attenuation is only part of the bigger picture. You really need to see a bitloading graph to really see what's going on.


On the DrayTeks you can run adsl showbins in telnet to get this in raw form, or use OrbMT to get a graph.

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  Reply # 794722 7-Apr-2013 19:57
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sbiddle:

Attenuation is only part of the bigger picture. You really need to see a bitloading graph to really see what's going on.


I haven't used this tool before, but, I assume that it shows the top end of the frequency is gone...
No, I didn't put a low pass filter on the incoming line, honest...





Edit
Mind you, adsl showbins only shows data up to 255 - the same point that the graph cuts off. Perhaps the tool doesn't remap the values correctly across the full spectrum?







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  Reply # 794770 7-Apr-2013 21:29
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Here is my bitloading graph, Not sure what this means or shows if it's good or bad...







CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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  Reply # 794800 8-Apr-2013 06:11
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It doesn't look like either graph from the Vigor120 corectly shows the 512 tones for ADSL2+, just 256 which is used for ADSL.

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  Reply # 794832 8-Apr-2013 08:58
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sbiddle: It doesn't look like either graph from the Vigor120 corectly shows the 512 tones for ADSL2+, just 256 which is used for ADSL.


I thought it might have been a display thing. Here's a screenshot from the rta1320 dmt tool (I do miss the ability to adjust the snr through this tool).


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