Would I benefit from a Master Filter

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PBaines

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Topic # 128659 18-Aug-2013 16:05

Hey ladies;

Just wondering if I would have any gains of installing a master filter.

I live out in Rural Manawatu, and get around 450kb down and 90kb up. ( ADSL 2 )
The wiring of the house is;

There are TWO jackpoints.
The first Jackpoint has an in-line filter plugged in to the jack, with the Phone and Modem plugged into it.
The second Jackpoint has nothing plugged in, so basically only have one jackpoint in use.

If I installed a master filter, and had two RJ45 keystones on the jackpoint for each phone/modem would I see any improvement in speed?

Here are my current stats.
Yeah... I live about 5km from the cabinet :D

Thanks!

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Reply # 880584 18-Aug-2013 16:05

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

RunningMan

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Reply # 880614 18-Aug-2013 16:51

It would help by removing the line stub from the second jackpoint that will be causing reflections.

You could try just disconnecting the wiring to the second jack, and that may help improve the line slightly.

Having said that, I suggest the bigger problem is likely to be the gear you are connected to. Given that you are connecting at G.dmt (ADSL 1), your throughout of about 450kb/s is only about 10% of your sync speed, and you are rural, you are most likely connected to a conklin. In simple terms, these are an older style cabinet that have quite limited backhaul to share amongst the connected users, which means you get a lot on congestion, particularly at peak times.

EDIT: Do you mean 450kb/s or 450kB/s for your throughput?

cyril7

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Reply # 880621 18-Aug-2013 17:00

Hi, definitely remove the other socket at the point where the modem connects, ie I have assumed from your description inbound line goes direct to first socket where modem attaches, then goes on to second socket. If thats the case then remove the 2nd socket wiring from the back of the first socket so the inbound line ONLY goes to the first socket and put the inline filter there to provision both the modem and phone.

If you do this and there is NO other wiring between the line from the road and this single remaining socket then you have achieved the same outcome as a master filter install, well pretty much :)

Cyril

PBaines

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 880640 18-Aug-2013 17:38

Thanks for the help so far guys!

here is how the wiring is done, so the modem/phone is on the far left socket

RunningMan

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Reply # 880641 18-Aug-2013 17:40

One person supports this post

If you can get rid of that "T" off to socket 2, it would help. Even though there is nothing plugged in, it can interfere.

cyril7

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Reply # 880645 18-Aug-2013 17:43

Yep get rid of socket2 as its lands on socket1 and connect the modem to socket1

S

Bung

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Reply # 880669 18-Aug-2013 18:39

RunningMan: If you can get rid of that "T" off to socket 2, it would help. Even though there is nothing plugged in, it can interfere.

PBaines has chosen to number the last socket on the run as 1 which makes it harder to get rid of 2, In his diagram the line terminates on 2 first. To get rid of the socket you'd have to join 2 cables. He could try the modem in 2 without 1 connected to see if there was any improvement.

PBaines

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 880684 18-Aug-2013 18:54

Bung:
RunningMan: If you can get rid of that "T" off to socket 2, it would help. Even though there is nothing plugged in, it can interfere.

PBaines has chosen to number the last socket on the run as 1 which makes it harder to get rid of 2, In his diagram the line terminates on 2 first. To get rid of the socket you'd have to join 2 cables. He could try the modem in 2 without 1 connected to see if there was any improvement.

I just tried plugging the modem into socket 2, with the phone not plugged into socket one, and got 500kbp/s, so a little improvement. However next to socket one I have my file server, with the router, modem and switch. So would have to lay out some new cat6 cable if I moved the modem into the room with socket 2.

So basically the speeds I am getting on socket 2 would be the same if I installed a master filter?

RunningMan

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Reply # 880687 18-Aug-2013 19:03

2 people support this post

PBaines: So basically the speeds I am getting on socket 2 would be the same if I installed a master filter?

No. Having the unused wiring connected is the problem. You are aiming for a single line for the modem, with no branches off it. The "T" shape of your wiring layout is an issue.

Installing a master filter is one way of doing this. Getting rid of the branches in the wiring is the other.

PBaines

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 880765 18-Aug-2013 23:02

Right. So after some thought I installed my master filter tonight (was going to do it anyways) in the roof.

The wiring went like this
(ps, I forgot I had 3rd socket in the lounge, it was for sky. And whenever I had the Sky plugged into it my internet would speeds would drop 50% so unplugged it)

The box outside looks like this, so since there's two big thick red/black cables I connected the master filter half way down the line in the roof, probably around 8m from the in-line to the filter. That's okay right?

So here is the diagram with how it is now. The cabling to the modem is CAT 3 I think, it has 2 pairs blue white/ orange/white

However, look at my original stats, compared to my second ones... what is the problem? is it because the master filter is half way down the line and that I am using CAT 3 cable to the modem?
Do I need to have the ADSL Splitters that come with the modems between the socket and the modem?
I tried the Draytek Vigor 120 in ADSL 2+ mode, it gave me an upload of 110 up, 340 down...

Thanks for your help so far guys, much appreciated!

coffeebaron

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Reply # 880806 19-Aug-2013 08:29

Get rid of that old black cable, and run a new one from ETP.

Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

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cyril7

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Reply # 880838 19-Aug-2013 09:47

Yep that old trurip (one with heavy cores and red/black inner insulation) is no good for DSL replace it with some cat5e solid core, but honestly at 45dB your on a slippery slope.

Cyril

PBaines

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 880897 19-Aug-2013 10:58

Just replaced it with some spare CAT 6 I had.

Should the master filer be installed at the ETP or is it fine where I have it in the middle of the run in the roof?

coffeebaron

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Reply # 881055 19-Aug-2013 15:18

PBaines: Just replaced it with some spare CAT 6 I had.

Should the master filer be installed at the ETP or is it fine where I have it in the middle of the run in the roof?

Run the CAT6 cable all the way from demarc to dedicated DSL jack-point
Install Splitter at Demarc
Feed DSL onto Green pair of CAT6 cable
Feed voice onto Blue pair of CAT6 cable
Splice into Blue pair along CAT6 cable and feed off to any voice jack-points you need to, including terminating end of Blue pair to a phone jack-point next to DSL jack-point if required
Do not splice into Green pair.

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RunningMan

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Reply # 881111 19-Aug-2013 16:49

coffeebaron:
Run the CAT6 cable all the way from demarc to dedicated DSL jack-point
Install Splitter at Demarc
Feed DSL onto Green pair of CAT6 cable
Feed voice onto Blue pair of CAT6 cable
Splice into Blue pair along CAT6 cable and feed off to any voice jack-points you need to, including terminating end of Blue pair to a phone jack-point next to DSL jack-point if required
Do not splice into Green pair.

This is the way to do it.

The reason your sync rate has dropped is because your noise margin has gone up from 12dB to 15dB. This would normally be set by Chorus in conjunction with your ISP if you reported you were having stability problems - effectively it trades stability for speed. Have you been speaking to your ISP's helpdesk about an unstable line?

Try rebooting your modem, and see what the noise margin comes up as.

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