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835 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 62424 6-Jun-2010 21:30
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Hi,

I'll try and use the correct terminology where I can but forgive me if I get some words/meanings wrong. I've been reading up about networks/cabling/protocols etc since we moved to our new place almost a year ago. I've now finally got some time to do something about it, (and I need to do it quick before baby number 2 gets here and time vanishes again!)
Here's the current situation. The house is a medium sized, single story 3 bedroom place, concrete block with concrete roof tiles, and a seperate garage built in the late 70's. The floor is concrete but there is space in the roof. There are 4 telephone jacks, standard BT ones. One in the kitchen, one in the master bedroom, one in another bedroom, and one out in the garage. The demarc point is in the kitchen.  A cable runs up into the roof where small plastic clips connect the wires of all the phone jacks and the cables run off in their respective directions. We had Chorus around soon after we moved in to get rid of a buzz, (which has slowly returned incidently) and they found a join outside that had moisture in it which they replaced with new cable. The guy who came was unable to determine exactly where and how the cable enters the house as it just seems to pop up at the kitchen, there was no sign of it anywhere in the roof.
I want to replace all the phone cables. I know that I can get over 6Mbps when I connect the modem directly to the demarc point with all other jacks disconnected, but only just over 2 Mbps everywhere else in the house so somewhere I'm guessing there's some intereferance. I'm wanting to do some experimenting with servers and networks so my plan was to replace all the phone cables (some look pretty old) and while I'm there run cables for data. I'd also add some additional data cable runs to other areas of the house, such as the TV. Doing the research, including posts from cyril7 and sbiddle,  it looks like establishing some sort of strucutred cabling system is the way to go and will future proof me a bit too.
My plan thus far is to replace all the phone cables using cat5e, and while I'm doing that running another one in for data. I would bring all cables back to a cupboard in the centre of the house where I would have one of these 16 port patch panels or similar. I would mount that in the cupboard. I would then add a phone jack in the cupboard to connect up the modem too and add in a switch. I've read you shouldn't have more than 4 phone lines in use with ADSL so I would simply leave the 2nd bedroom phone jack unplugged as I would no longer need it.
I'd replace all the BT jacks with ones like this so I'd have phone and data neatly on the wall. Would I be better off using one of the keystone/110 faceplates and jacks? Any adavantages there.
Is there anything I've missed here? Suggestions, comments welcome? Where's the best place to get patch panels and faceplates etc from? Keeping in mind, I'm on a fairly limited budget.

Thanks, enjoy your holiday weekend.

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64 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 338893 6-Jun-2010 21:47
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The herald did a good article about re wiring yesterday. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10649853  and it refers to this website http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html



835 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339082 7-Jun-2010 18:11
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Yes, I saw that article, and had a look through the tcf stuff, quite a lot of which was well over my head. ANd although it's aimed at new homes I'd like to take their advice where I can. Having another flick through it ismaking me wonder with a should run some RG6 along with the phone/data cabling. Although that would mean buying a heap of cable and slpitters and amplifiers which may not be fiscally possible at this point. I guess this should go on another forum but is it fine to run RG6 along with Cat5e?
I was thinking of mounting the patch panel into the ceiling of the cupboard with the back end where everything terminates sticking into the roof space. That why I would be using less space and I can keep things tidy and out of the cupboard. Is that possible or have I got it completely wrong.

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  Reply # 339083 7-Jun-2010 18:23
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RG6 can be run find with cat5e - just remember that both need to be separated from power.



835 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339143 7-Jun-2010 20:17
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Yes I thought as much. I'll have to do some maths and see if it's feasible for me to do it when I run the other cables. Did you glance at my earlier posts there Steve? Do my plans sound like I'm heading in the right direction?

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  Reply # 339147 7-Jun-2010 20:32
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First off I wouldn't bother with BT jackpoints, especially if you're upgrading everything. They serve no purpose at all - every port should just be RJ45 and wired back to a patch panel which gives you the flexibility to do whatever you want to do with a jackpoint.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339159 7-Jun-2010 20:49
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Ahhh ok, and just use an adaptor like this?
Well that would make sense. So I guess the socket where I wanted the phone would just need would just use 2 wires hooked up...hmmm. Many details huh, I'm gunna have to go back and re-read some of the strutcured cabling posts and write down exactly what connects to what.

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  Reply # 339160 7-Jun-2010 20:54
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CutCutCut: Ahhh ok, and just use an adaptor like this?
Well that would make sense. So I guess the socket where I wanted the phone would just need would just use 2 wires hooked up...hmmm. Many details huh, I'm gunna have to go back and re-read some of the strutcured cabling posts and write down exactly what connects to what.


You can do if you want an extra ugly adapter hanging out of the wall. The simplest way is just to use a RJ45-RJ12 cable that plugs into the RJ12 socket on the phone and the RJ45 wall socket.

You would also hook the whole 8 cat5e wires up to every jackpoint. There is no point just hooking up the blue/blue white pair for voice because you'd never be able to use that port for data.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339163 7-Jun-2010 21:05
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Ok, yup roger that. Definitely sounds more that would be more wife acceptable than the ugly hanging adaptor.

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  Reply # 339180 7-Jun-2010 22:41
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Your supplier has a wall cabinet too... http://www.adriatica.co.nz/product_info.php?products_id=18422

and some mini patch panels... http://www.adriatica.co.nz/product_info.php?products_id=17836

if those things are useful. You could put a splitter in the kitchen and just run an unfiltered cable to the patch panel for ADSL, which allows you to leave the phone cables alone and just install new cabling for data (and put the modem in the cupboard with the patch panel). Might be worth running two cables for each location as a spare in case you ever need to expand the network. Dont forget your cupboard needs a nearby power supply, and the cupboard might need an safety earth for any metal equipment.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339238 8-Jun-2010 08:26
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One of those smaller patch panels might be worth considering, I'll have another look, they seem to be a similar price to the larger versions though and seem to look quite plasticy, and well 'cheap', I wonder if they would do they job just as well though. Not sure about a full cabinet in the cupboard, that might be pushing it with the aesthetics comittee, limited storage space in the house.
In you opinion do hard patched splitters do a better job than filters? Are they hard to install?
Yeah I hard a sparkie around the other day doing a couple of small jobs and got him to put a couple of power points in the cupboard for me.
Could you explain the earthing further for me? Do all the elecrical goods need some sort of seperate earth, other than what runs through the power?

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  Reply # 339512 8-Jun-2010 19:48
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Central splitters are essential if you want the fastest possible speeds - the reality is in the majority of cases you will see a significant speed increase over using plug in filters.

Plug in filters also don't support the upcoming VDSL2 rollout, so you'll need a central splitter if you want to use VDSL2.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339527 8-Jun-2010 20:47
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Thanks. From my understanding, we're too far away from the exchange, roughly 2.2km by road, with no planned cabinets. And max download speed I've got is about 6Mbps. So am I right in thinking VDSL2 is probably unlikely for me. Also it'll probably cost way too much! I'm guessing I could get away with just a ADSL splitter.
I see a bunch of different splitters on trademe, some VDSL2 compliant and some not. Should I be looking for a specific model or brand? Where's the best place to buy this sort of gear from? What sort of price should I be paying?
If I DIY this, am I breaking any Chorus rules or anything?



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 339595 8-Jun-2010 22:32
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Is there anything wrong with these as new faceplates? They seem like a good price?

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  Reply # 339646 9-Jun-2010 02:48
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PABX masters may be needed on some really really old phones inorder to ring, otherwise do as Steve said and change the plug to an RJ45 on your existing cables. If your phone is so old that it needs the ringing wire it may be what is contributing to stuffing up your adsl speeds.

RJ12s will go into RJ45 sockets - some people say it will damage it but I have not seen anything happen to the ones I have done here in the years they have been used for phone.

I wouldn't bother getting a 19" rack patch panel, The 12 port surface mount ones available for not much at cables direct. Have 2 the same going into my sisters since there is no point putting a rack mount one in, seem a little plasticy but with only 12 cables on each shouldnt be hard to wrangle them into sitting flat.

Chorus guy not finding where the cable comes in is a bit worrying. They have tools to locate and follow cables for a reason. Anyway, get all your internal stuff sorted, get cat-5e etc back to as far as you possibly can and see how it goes for speed. If it is still low then its up to chorus to sort it out to the demarc, and that would involve finding where it is.

Those dynamix plates aren't the prettiest with exposed screws. No snap on cover means you cant direct fix them as easily so you have to mess around with a flush-box or gib grip brackets to hold them. Look at the known brands since yellowing of the plastic has happened on the off brand ones that were in a friends house when he got it.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 339670 9-Jun-2010 07:33
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Hi, as Rich says avoid the Dynamix Amdex plates, they dont fit in with the common NZ PDL or even Clipsal styles, and they look cheap, better to get the real thing from your local wholesaler, you will pay more however.

The surface mount 12ports are a very good option if you are not going to a full inwall or onwall cabinet setup. They will neatly fit anywhere like back of a closet or understairs with a router and switch wall mounted beside.

Cyril

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