Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

#171952 6-May-2015 18:21
Send private message

Called to support a brand new client who was not getting the response they needed from their current support company.  Reception PC (which acts as a file server for other network computers) takes an hour to start - basically unusable even then.  Client unable to install our remote diagnostic utility.  Hard drive failing was near the top of a short list of possible causes.

Had a look at the 18 month old machine - a Dell business slim desktop (SFF not USDT size).  Went into BIOS.  Once again, I find that SMART is deliberately disabled by the computer manufacturer.  Have seen this before from Dell - many times in the last 4 years - on machines clients have purchased themselves.

Ran the onboard diagnostics and these confirmed a faulty hard drive.

Checked 3 identical machines in the office - SMART also turned off on these machines.  Explained this to the company owner.

The only conclusion I have been able to come to in the past, and reinforced again today, is that Dell would rather their clients lose data than get warnings about a failing hard drive during the warranty period.  If the warnings were enabled, clients might lodge a warranty claim which costs Dell money.  With the alerts turned off, they are likely hoping that the drive may be indicating that it is about to fail (but the BIOS is not listening) but does not actually fail until the machine is out of warranty, at which time they could charge for the repair.  Unfortunately for the client, the data on their drive is likely to be unrecoverable (and they may not have sufficient backups).

You would need rocks in your head to buy a computer from a company who is going out of their way to create a circumstance in which their clients can lose data.






“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
johnr
19282 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2526
Inactive user


  #1299330 6-May-2015 18:32
Send private message

The Data is not Dells responsibility, The business should have backups



richms
28343 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9324

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299333 6-May-2015 18:47
Send private message

Windows tells you when there are smart errors anyway IME.




Richard rich.ms

Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299334 6-May-2015 18:48
Send private message

Yes any computer owner should have backups.  You and I both know this is not always done by all businesses or consumers, and backups are rarely completed every hour of the day.  A computer giving SMART warnings eliminates the potential for data loss in many circumstances because a repair can be done before a drive failure.

Dell are deliberately hiding from their warranty responsibilities and significantly increasing the likelihood of data loss.




“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.




Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299336 6-May-2015 18:53
Send private message

richms: Windows tells you when there are smart errors anyway IME.

My 18 years of commercial desktop IT experience disagrees with you.  SMART has of course only been common in hard drives for the last 8 (?) years or so.




“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.


richms
28343 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9324

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299338 6-May-2015 18:58
Send private message

Dynamic:
richms: Windows tells you when there are smart errors anyway IME.

My 18 years of commercial desktop IT experience disagrees with you.  SMART has of course only been common in hard drives for the last 8 (?) years or so.


My downloading machine pops up a warning shortly after boot if I have the duff drive connected, telling me that stuffs at risk and to back it up and offering to launch windows backup. Might be part of the intel drivers or something but its a pretty stock 7 professional installation with just all the intel motherboard guff installed.




Richard rich.ms

Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299342 6-May-2015 19:06
Send private message

richms: My downloading machine pops up a warning shortly after boot if I have the duff drive connected, telling me that stuffs at risk and to back it up and offering to launch windows backup. Might be part of the intel drivers or something but its a pretty stock 7 professional installation with just all the intel motherboard guff installed.

Yes the Intel motherboards and their AHCI drivers and utilities are pretty good for that.  This is unfortunately the exception and not the rule.




“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.


richms
28343 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9324

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299343 6-May-2015 19:09
Send private message

Actually that drive was on an aweful silicon image PCIe card not the onboard so thats another point of where it came from, but I have had the same or similar dialog appear on a crappy laptop with a spinning rust drive as well. That one it was obvious it was dying because it took about 10 mins to boot to the login screen and another 5 after that.




Richard rich.ms

 
 
 

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).
freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
79608 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 38034

Administrator
ID Verified
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299345 6-May-2015 19:09
Send private message

Dynamic: Dell are deliberately hiding from their warranty responsibilities and significantly increasing the likelihood of data loss.


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."





Please support Geekzone by subscribing, or using one of our referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies 

 

Geekzone and Quic social @ DataVault Auckland 18 Oct 2025 11AM - 2:30 PM


Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299346 6-May-2015 19:12
Send private message

freitasm:
Dynamic: Dell are deliberately hiding from their warranty responsibilities and significantly increasing the likelihood of data loss.


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I've always liked that quote.  In this case, my experience indicates it is the former.




“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.


networkn
Networkn
32446 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 14982

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299355 6-May-2015 19:25
Send private message

freitasm:
Dynamic: Dell are deliberately hiding from their warranty responsibilities and significantly increasing the likelihood of data loss.


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."



I'd agree with almost every other company but my extensive experience with Dell suggests both could apply and usually does.

richms
28343 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9324

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299356 6-May-2015 19:27
Send private message

Stupidity for sure.

They are top of my s..t list for the fiasco over the computer order that they decided to cancel and refund to me all at the same time the social media people were telling me was on its way and would be delivered soon.




Richard rich.ms

Dynamic

3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1680

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1299368 6-May-2015 19:46
Send private message

I've seen this across multiple series of Dell machines for 4+ years.  It's not stupidity.  It's policy.

I've also seen it with local computer assemblers aiming to avoid warranty claims.  Motherboards I know come with the defaults of SMART checking enabled but when the same motherboard has gone into a locally assembled computer and then delivered to and end user, the SMART checking is disabled.  Reset the BIOS to defaults and the SMART check is re-enabled.




“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

 

Referral links to services I use, really like, and may be rewarded if you sign up:
PocketSmith for budgeting and personal finance management.  A great Kiwi company.


gzt

gzt
17344 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6349

Lifetime subscriber

  #1299561 7-May-2015 00:02
Send private message

Dynamic:

You may well be 100% right - but personally I would not be quick to make that judgement without fully understanding the reasons for that decision.

I'm not going to pick either way in this argument without knowing more but here's some background:

SMART has been around a lot longer than 8 years. IIRC and IME during its progress once or twice it has suffered from issues itself.

+there is actual hdd failure and predicted x probability of hdd failure and these are two different things.

(& http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.)

Don't take this a defence of Dell - it is not, but there might be just a little more to understand about reasons for this decision and if they are valid reasons (or not).

SirHumphreyAppleby
2871 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1808


  #1299614 7-May-2015 08:02
Send private message

richms: Stupidity for sure.

They are top of my s..t list for the fiasco over the computer order that they decided to cancel and refund to me all at the same time the social media people were telling me was on its way and would be delivered soon.


They are certainly up there on my faecal list, right behind a certain ISP and courier company, for sending a sub-standard refurbished part to replace a DOA part, taking a week to do so when the product had an overnight replacement warranty, and then a further two months to get a refund to me.

geekiegeek
2513 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 625
Inactive user


  #1299673 7-May-2015 09:16
Send private message

Being a business slim desktop I wouldn't expect that any data should be held on it and maybe this is Dells reasoning for not enabling SMART? Its not a server and as a business machine you could reasonably expect it to be connecting to a server for critical files etc.

I would hope that you have either sold them a server with some form of drive redundancy or moved all of their data to a cloud service and informed them that desktops are not for storing critical data.

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic








Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.