Setting up our own EFTPOS (2nd hand terminal)

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BlackGlove

59 posts

Master Geek

#208651 21-Feb-2017 13:42

I've had a fairly good look through the archives and on the interweb and can't find much info about this.

We're setting up a small business and as you're all undoubtedbly aware it's hellishly expensive and everyone has their had out for a cut at every step along the way.

One of the places where we though we might be able to save some money is buy buying our own (2nd hand) EFTPOS terminal and setting it up ourselves. If I am understanding correctly then as long as we have a merchant account (with Kiwibank which includes Paymark), and some POS software that interfaces with the terminal (we'll be using Vend), then we should be good to go. Is this right?

Obviously we are then liable for any hardware issues, and risks associated with not having update firmware on the terminal - but it is doable? Cutting out that monthly cost from EFTPOS NZ (or competitor) would be most helpful right now.

Surprised there's not more venues for this sort of information out there.

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8312 posts

Uber Geek

#1723715 21-Feb-2017 13:49

There is a cut off coming in April 2017 , so I would check that the device you are being offered will comply with the specs for connecting after this date

https://www.paymark.co.nz/support/centre/terminals-and-technology/

" I have a PCI 1.3 terminal and/or a terminal with software version 6.1 or 2013. What should I do?

PCI 1.3 and software versions 6.1 and 2013 will be removed from the market on 30 April 2017. You must upgrade prior to this date to ensure that you can continue taking electronic payments"

Lias

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#1723719 21-Feb-2017 13:56

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

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Pumpedd

1759 posts

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#1723721 21-Feb-2017 13:58

Lias:

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

If you are a small retail and dont offer credit card then you cant offer paywave. I dont blame small retailers for reducing to pay the credit card fees.

rayonline

1734 posts

Uber Geek

#1723725 21-Feb-2017 14:03

Parents had a shop. Over the time they bought new units and had to replace them due to security requirements. They must have bought at least 3 or 4 units new. They did contact them about "upgrading" the devices b/c the units were still working. Wasn't possible for the ones they had. Rental is another way so it doesn't get outdated.

BlackGlove

59 posts

Master Geek

#1723730 21-Feb-2017 14:09

Hmmmm, so it's not possible to upgrade the software yourself? It would be weird if I had to go to [PC Retailer] to get a software upgrade for my PC rather than going to the device or software manufacturer (website) directly. Searching for this information only leads to EFTPOS providers :)

kobiak

1615 posts

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Trusted

#1723744 21-Feb-2017 14:18

BlackGlove:

Hmmmm, so it's not possible to upgrade the software yourself? It would be weird if I had to go to [PC Retailer] to get a software upgrade for my PC rather than going to the device or software manufacturer (website) directly. Searching for this information only leads to EFTPOS providers :)

I might be wrong. but that's security issue. Allowing everyone to update/upgrade firmware on such security sensitive device could lead to all sort of problems.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

eftpos

74 posts

Master Geek

#1723756 21-Feb-2017 14:36

BlackGlove:

I've had a fairly good look through the archives and on the interweb and can't find much info about this.

We're setting up a small business and as you're all undoubtedbly aware it's hellishly expensive and everyone has their had out for a cut at every step along the way.

One of the places where we though we might be able to save some money is buy buying our own (2nd hand) EFTPOS terminal and setting it up ourselves. If I am understanding correctly then as long as we have a merchant account (with Kiwibank which includes Paymark), and some POS software that interfaces with the terminal (we'll be using Vend), then we should be good to go. Is this right?

Obviously we are then liable for any hardware issues, and risks associated with not having update firmware on the terminal - but it is doable? Cutting out that monthly cost from EFTPOS NZ (or competitor) would be most helpful right now.

Surprised there's not more venues for this sort of information out there.

Happy to help with this as we're in the throws of Terminal Upgrades at the moment and familiar with it all.....being an independent EFTPOS Provider and all that :-)

KiwiBank - Merchant Services yes, issue Paymark Merchant Numbers yes - All good on that front

To Interface with Vend you need a specific terminal type with specific "Interface" Software residing in the Terminal. At the moment the best options are; VeriFone Terminal on Paymark Network with UIA interface using the Vantiv Integrated Payment type. Bear in mind there is a monthly fee to Verifone of about $7 to have that Interface in place. Cloud Based 2 Way; sends the amount, recieves the result. Other option is a Pax Terminal, requires SmartlinkLite interface, not sure what they charge to have that additional piece of software in the terminal. Interface is also 2 way but uses local LAN for comms. Otherwise if you go "stand-alone" then you just punch in the amounts and "cash it off" on Vend.

I could write an essay on the risks of owning your own terminal but bear in mind the following. Most terminals come with a 12 month Manufacturer Warranty (this does NOT cover the software in the terminal). If it has to be sent back for repair I can tell you form our own repair schedule that is taking 3 - 5 weeks for turnaround from the two major manufacturers; during that time you will have no EFTPOS facility or you will have to hire a Terminal Short Term while you wait for repairs. With the newer terminals even a small brownout or surge can trigger the voltage tampers within the terminal, small drops can do it to.

Please do not buy a Terminal off TradeMe! Most of whats available is PCI 1.3 and those are being barred from the Network come end of April 2017. In addition to that the Software in the Terminal also has a lifecycle that requires it be upgraded to keep in line with Paymark (and EFTPOS NZ) compliance requirements. I've had several people turn up with Terminals that "may have been working for the seller" but as a "new merchant" you aren't allowed to transact on them. Not only that there are some "organisations" that sell on TradeMe but most of it is for 3rd tier manufactures so you're really reliant on them staying in the market long enough for your terminal to be supported.

Most manufactures introduced what they call a "software compliance" fee which ranges from $5 to $15 per month on all PCI 3.x and above Terminals. Authorised Terminal Providers are charged this fee which is then passed onto the merchant. If the fee is not paid the Terminal can be "bricked" by the Manufacturer. Dont ask me how, I'm not allowed to tell. So you could buy a PCI 3.x device 2nd hand but you are then making an assumption that the previous owner either paid upfront for a year or 2 years of compliance fees or if they paid it monthly then once the Authroised Terminal Provide stops receiving the Fee then they'll request de-activation of the Terminal.

The advice I can give you heading forward is that over 80% of the merchant fleet rent their terminals as SO many have been burned by the cost of managing their own compliance. A quick example of something out of anyone in the Industrys control. ANZ sells EFTPOS NEw Zealand to Verifone in the USA. Within a few months VeriFone stands up their new "Payment Switch" and in order to connect to it you had to replace your terminal. I had several merchants who had just bought new terminals and within less than a year were looking at another round capital expenditure that no one knew about or saw coming; some had over 20 lanes deployed.

Happy to answer any questions or flick me an email if you need some help.

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eftpos

74 posts

Master Geek

#1723762 21-Feb-2017 14:42

BlackGlove:

Hmmmm, so it's not possible to upgrade the software yourself? It would be weird if I had to go to [PC Retailer] to get a software upgrade for my PC rather than going to the device or software manufacturer (website) directly. Searching for this information only leads to EFTPOS providers :)

Software upgrades must delivered securely to the Terminal. Most of the time we do it over IP (takes about 20 minutes). Sometimes when the Crypto has to be upgraded the unit must be returned to the manufacturer to reload the "keys" in a secure environment. Some terminals can do it over Dial (takes an hour or two or three) and not very reliable.

I see your point and enough merchants raise it with me when we do upgrades. Problem is most people cant pick up their terminal and take it somewhere to be upgraded or leave it for a period of time with a manufacturer as in most cases its a 24/7 device.

Amosnz

567 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1723791 21-Feb-2017 14:53

Pumpedd:

Lias:

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

If you are a small retail and dont offer credit card then you cant offer paywave. I dont blame small retailers for reducing to pay the credit card fees.

We have a terminal here (rented for all the above ease of use reasons) thats just been upgraded at the end of the first rental term. Our new terminal supports paywave but the first month after using we noticed our fees were much higher than usual. We worked out when debit cards are processed as paywave its over the CC network instead of eftpos, so now we don't do paywave for anyone.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be disable-able on device, so we have to get the card and insert, then type in the amount rather than type the amount and get the card (as paywave triggers before the card is in).

Speedtest

eftpos

74 posts

Master Geek

#1723797 21-Feb-2017 14:58

Amosnz:

Pumpedd:

Lias:

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

If you are a small retail and dont offer credit card then you cant offer paywave. I dont blame small retailers for reducing to pay the credit card fees.

We have a terminal here (rented for all the above ease of use reasons) thats just been upgraded at the end of the first rental term. Our new terminal supports paywave but the first month after using we noticed our fees were much higher than usual. We worked out when debit cards are processed as paywave its over the CC network instead of eftpos, so now we don't do paywave for anyone.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be disable-able on device, so we have to get the card and insert, then type in the amount rather than type the amount and get the card (as paywave triggers before the card is in).

You can negotiate a debit-rate for contactless which would be less than your credit-rate if you wanted to keep it available. Some terminals can override the Switch configuration that says "turn on contactless"; what sort of terminal do you have?

Most of the time the easiest way is to contact your Merchant Bank and let them know you don't want to accept contactless. In most cases it then takes a few days for the terminal to receive a message to disable that "payment type".

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#1723809 21-Feb-2017 15:15

Lias:

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

Do people seriously avoid a store because it doesn't have paywave? That's ridiculous.

trig42

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#1723812 21-Feb-2017 15:16

I don't avoid if they don't have paywave. I do wave my card at the machine if it looks like it should have it (like the Verifone Silver ones).

eftpos

74 posts

Master Geek

#1723814 21-Feb-2017 15:20

Since Apply Pay launched we've had more inquiries than usual for our Merchants looking at the costs and seriously considering it. More are getting it enabled than say a year ago. We're not the biggest Terminal Provider but a solid number of our Merchants have had it turned on in the last 12 - 18 months.

Lias

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#1723840 21-Feb-2017 15:51

Paul1977:

Lias:

In semi related news, if you don't have paywave, lots of people will simply avoid your store, so make sure you have a paywave enabled terminal.

Do people seriously avoid a store because it doesn't have paywave? That's ridiculous.

I certainly do, and I know plenty of others who do too. It's just so much more convenient.

dan

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#1723842 21-Feb-2017 15:59

the paywave fees are a rip for the store, i recommend disabling it to all my retail store customers.. and they do.

i recommend getting paywave disabled no matter what pinpad you go for

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