Copper shutdown post 2020 proposed

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#1719222 13-Feb-2017 09:02

Lias:

richms:

If there is an issue with poor people then it should be addressed thru work and income, they already provide funding for a phone for people who are job seeking and do not have one. Not up to chorus to operate as a charity to these people when it is something the welfare state should be providing.

I don't think I could disagree more. I've been calling for Telecom, and then post split Chorus, to be run as a not for profit community trust like various lines trusts for years. At a minimum as long as they have a government issued monopoly (or near monopoly) they should be regulated to limit profits, and put consumers first. Any day a Chorus shareholder is happy, is not a good day for the people of NZ.

Chorus will have both a price cap and a revenue cap under this regime.

Chorus share prices dropped on this announcement and analysts say this is overall bad for the company.

MikeAqua

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#1719263 13-Feb-2017 10:40

So what happens in rural areas with no fibre after the copper drop-dead date? Forced onto 4G (if available)?

Mike

DarkShadow

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#1719270 13-Feb-2017 10:55

MikeAqua:

So what happens in rural areas with no fibre after the copper drop-dead date? Forced onto 4G (if available)?

Copper shut off is only for fibre areas. Chorus would still be obliged to provide copper services outside fibre coverage.

yitz

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#1719282 13-Feb-2017 11:24

I hope RSP plans don't get too complicated, the nationwide offerings today support competition in a good way.

MikeAqua

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#1719283 13-Feb-2017 11:25

DarkShadow:

MikeAqua:

So what happens in rural areas with no fibre after the copper drop-dead date? Forced onto 4G (if available)?

Copper shut off is only for fibre areas. Chorus would still be obliged to provide copper services outside fibre coverage.

Any chance we will see some of the new faster technologies for copper implemented in NZ? Would seem to be sensible solutions for rural copper networks.

Mike

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1719310 13-Feb-2017 11:48

MikeAqua:

DarkShadow:

MikeAqua:

So what happens in rural areas with no fibre after the copper drop-dead date? Forced onto 4G (if available)?

Copper shut off is only for fibre areas. Chorus would still be obliged to provide copper services outside fibre coverage.

Any chance we will see some of the new faster technologies for copper implemented in NZ? Would seem to be sensible solutions for rural copper networks.

i recall mention of a few services possibly coming in some areas.

Obviously fibre is the way forward, some of the gear in NZ is not capable of say, G.Fast for example or simply is not feasable.

Rural areas will still be regulated and in fibre areas i fully support dropping of copper service

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SaltyNZ

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#1719361 13-Feb-2017 13:34

MikeAqua:

Any chance we will see some of the new faster technologies for copper implemented in NZ? Would seem to be sensible solutions for rural copper networks.

If all the regulatory changes make it through, LFCs will be able to string fibre on power lines. That will make it a lot cheaper to offer fibre in rural areas. And when the day finally comes that all those lines are buried, they'll just bury the fibre too. I harbour a faint hope that I'll see fibre at my place at some point within the next 5 years.

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MikeAqua

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#1719430 13-Feb-2017 14:40

I was reading about some technologies that will offer ultra fast broadband over copper networks.

G.Fast is one name I recall. However I don't know enough to judge whether it's for real or just BS!

Or is the copper network so bad lots of it would need to be replaced anyway?

Seems a shame not to use the existing network if it can be used to deliver fast broadband.

Mike

DarkShadow

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#1719446 13-Feb-2017 15:20

MikeAqua:

I was reading about some technologies that will offer ultra fast broadband over copper networks.

G.Fast is one name I recall. However I don't know enough to judge whether it's for real or just BS!

Or is the copper network so bad lots of it would need to be replaced anyway?

Seems a shame not to use the existing network if it can be used to deliver fast broadband.

G.fast can get you hundreds of megabits but only over a short run of copper.

If you want G.fast to work, you pretty much have to drop a DSLAM next to everyone's letterbox. This also means you have to run fiber past everyone's home. If you're already running fibre past people's home you might as well do the job properly and bring fibre inside the house.

richms

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#1719447 13-Feb-2017 15:22

DarkShadow:

G.fast can get you hundreds of megabits but only over a short run of copper.

If you want G.fast to work, you pretty much have to drop a DSLAM next to everyone's letterbox. This also means you have to run fiber past everyone's home. If you're already running fibre past people's home you might as well do the job properly and bring fibre inside the house.

Unless you are australia, where you will deploy fiber to the kerb just to make sure that you dont have to admit that giving up on fiber to the house and going with only to the node was a huge mistake.

Richard rich.ms

MikeAqua

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#1719458 13-Feb-2017 15:32

DarkShadow:

G.fast can get you hundreds of megabits but only over a short run of copper.

If you want G.fast to work, you pretty much have to drop a DSLAM next to everyone's letterbox. This also means you have to run fiber past everyone's home. If you're already running fibre past people's home you might as well do the job properly and bring fibre inside the house.

Thanks for that ... it's BS then!

Mike

hio77

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#1719483 13-Feb-2017 16:18

MikeAqua:

DarkShadow:

G.fast can get you hundreds of megabits but only over a short run of copper.

If you want G.fast to work, you pretty much have to drop a DSLAM next to everyone's letterbox. This also means you have to run fiber past everyone's home. If you're already running fibre past people's home you might as well do the job properly and bring fibre inside the house.

Thanks for that ... it's BS then!

Not BS but is more a service deigned for say, basement services.

Unfortunately the only way to physically make copper go faster is better having wider frequencys and to get that, you need to be closer or have a pretty thick cable so it doesn't loose signal.

Fibre is certainly the way of the future here. End of the day, with fibre you change the hardware at both ends and you have switched to a faster capability. it is a digital rather than analoge signal... It works or it doesn't. None of this, slightly connected cable managing a max of the 200kbit connection that can be a pain to actually get resolved!

From the helpdesk side of things, the process is easy.

No connection, is it authenticated nope. is the fibre connection down, Yep. Esclate for LFC to follow up.

on copper there would likely be waiting on tests and a bit of back and forward involved in the same case.

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DarkShadow

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#1719513 13-Feb-2017 17:09

hio77:

is the fibre connection down, Yep. Esclate for LFC to follow up.

This is the "fun" part about fibre troubleshooting. It's easy when optical is red. But those cases where optical is green and the problem is somewhere else in the Chorus network wants you to hit your head on the wall. Especially when there's no fibre diagnostic tools.

hio77

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#1719517 13-Feb-2017 17:26

DarkShadow:

hio77:

is the fibre connection down, Yep. Esclate for LFC to follow up.

This is the "fun" part about fibre troubleshooting. It's easy when optical is red. But those cases where optical is green and the problem is somewhere else in the Chorus network wants you to hit your head on the wall. Especially when there's no fibre diagnostic tools.

Indeed in that case, major issue. Rare to come across though..

Atleast with clothed services, there is an easy way to test conectivity up to the ONT too.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Aredwood

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#1719770 14-Feb-2017 00:09

I don't get the need to provide a regulated voice service. Unlimited mobile is already cheaper than the current regulated voice. And who would have to provide it? Will every RSP be required to provide voice? Will Chorus be turned into an RSP? (and a voice provider of last resort) Will Bigpipe be forced to offer voice despite not having a contact centre and not having a publicly available phone number.

Regulated voice should be left to die. Mobile networks are already facing alot of competition from free calling apps. And landline providers facing competition from standalone VOIP providers. There is no point forcing everyone to pay more for internet / data connections, just to offer a regulated voice service. When almost any data connection can be used to provide voice.

But there should be a regulated connection of say 256K/256K available. Which could be used for voice / fax / dialup / whatever other legacy service people still want to use.

If we didn't switch off old services we would still be dealing with crank handle phones, analogue TV, Sky UHF, Telex, Town gas, (gas created by heating coal) AMPS cellular network (the 025 network), Telecom CDMA network, Pagers, and probably a few more as well.

One of the people living on the same street as me is a retired telecoms tech. He said he remembers all of the complaints when the exchanges were converted to automatic operation, one town at a time. Lots of people wanted to keep their crank handle phones working. He said they would upgrade the exchange and everyone's houses at the same time. If you didn't want the upgrade then presumably you then had no phone at all. So we a lucky today that people can stay on copper if they wish. (at least for now)

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