Finding insecticides that work

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neb

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#260120 11-Nov-2019 18:17

Does anyone know of any place that still sells insecticides that work? By this I mean something that doesn't have "natural" or "organic" in it, preferably a systemic, to kill sucking insects. I've got native trees in the garden that are being devastated by aphids, and in a month or two they'll be replaced by passion vine hoppers, and the only thing that'll even slow them down is systemics. I know about the problems with neonics, but these are non-flowering trees with approximately zero bees anywhere hear them. I know some ag supply places are still selling stuff like imidacloprid and thiamethoxam, but I'm not sure if they'll sell to the public, and I also don't really need 20L of the stuff...

itxtme

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#2351892 11-Nov-2019 21:09

Only problem with this assumption is that bees eat honeydew which is made by the vine hoppers. Its poisonous to humans, not bees and is the reason you must get your honey tested for Tutin if you take it off after the 31st December. No idea if nipping it in the bud early would elevate this problem, given like you say vine hopper mode is still almost two months away/

Geektastic

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#2351907 11-Nov-2019 21:43

Without an operator's certificate etc you may find it hard to get much of any use from an ag supplier.

You'd probably be better off asking a contractor to spray for you, especially given the potential liability issues etc that can arise from such chemicals these days.

neb

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#2351980 12-Nov-2019 00:18

itxtme:
Only problem with this assumption is that bees eat honeydew which is made by the vine hoppers. Its poisonous to humans, not bees and is the reason you must get your honey tested for Tutin if you take it off after the 31st December. No idea if nipping it in the bud early would elevate this problem, given like you say vine hopper mode is still almost two months away/

Ah, hadn't thought of that. OTOH I've never seen any bees anywhere near the things, there's plenty of flowering stuff in the upper part of the garden to distract them so maybe that's why they don't go to the infested trees. Iin terms of spray drift there's the house in between, so little chance of it getting to where there are bees.

Ever since they banned Amiton it's been all downhill for effective insecticides, sigh. Too toxic they say, meh, that's what makes it effective.

neb

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#2351985 12-Nov-2019 00:21

Geektastic:
You'd probably be better off asking a contractor to spray for you, especially given the potential liability issues etc that can arise from such chemicals these days.

Problem is it really won't be cost-effective for a couple of trees and some bushes, particularly if I have to re-apply every few weeks... I've got some older acephate I can use for awhile, but that's awful stuff.

MikeB4

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#2352017 12-Nov-2019 07:39

@neb if you use soap powder in your clothes washing machine you can collect the water as it drains apply this to affected plants. Very successful.

Fred99

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#2352030 12-Nov-2019 08:35

neb: I know about the problems with neonics, but these are non-flowering trees with approximately zero bees anywhere hear them.

Bees aren't the only concern.

Other insects and aquatic invertebrates are highly susceptible to neonicotinoids, the compounds are water soluble, there's run-off to groundwater and evidence from the UK that traces of these insecticides are completely wiping out the aquatic invertebrates which are important (or a sole source) in the food chain for freshwater fish and some birds.
There's also plenty of evidence that people using neonicotinoids (and other pesticides) in home gardens tend to ignore instructions and work on the "more is better" fallacy. IIRC residual levels in nectar/pollen from commercial cropping analysed showed traces thought to be not harmful to bees (but possibly wrong), but samples from home gardens where these pesticides had been used had much higher and harmful (to bees) levels.

Fred99

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#2352032 12-Nov-2019 08:43

neb: Ever since they banned Amiton it's been all downhill for effective insecticides, sigh. Too toxic they say, meh, that's what makes it effective.

You could possibly obtain Amiton from North Korea.

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neb

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#2352444 12-Nov-2019 19:57

Fred99:
neb: Ever since they banned Amiton it's been all downhill for effective insecticides, sigh. Too toxic they say, meh, that's what makes it effective.

You could possibly obtain Amiton from North Korea.

Do you know how much hassle that was the last time? I had to fill out end-user certificates and all sorts of crap.

Mind you it got rid of the door-to-door salesguys.

timmmay

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#2352500 12-Nov-2019 20:36

Confidor - I think Bunnings might still stock it. Works pretty well. Careful of beneficial insects. I use it in a greenhouse with the greenhouse closed up.

MuzaNZ

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#2352543 12-Nov-2019 21:40

The likes of Horticentre will sell the commerical strength versions of mavrik, success, etc to the public as long as it doesn't require an approved handler certificate.

Usually with a minimum of 1 litre although they do sometimes have 200ml containers available.

neb

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#2353278 14-Nov-2019 15:11

MuzaNZ:
The likes of Horticentre will sell the commerical strength versions of mavrik, success, etc to the public as long as it doesn't require an approved handler certificate.

Usually with a minimum of 1 litre although they do sometimes have 200ml containers available.

Is that based on a recent check? I've just looked on their web site and all they list are Neem, Eco-something, and something for whitefly.

MuzaNZ

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#2353287 14-Nov-2019 15:31

Yes, you just need to call them or go in and ask for it, a lot of what they sell isn't listed on their website

neb

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#2353292 14-Nov-2019 15:41

MuzaNZ:
Yes, you just need to call them or go in and ask for it, a lot of what they sell isn't listed on their website

Great, thanks, will call tomorrow.