New House build - Help needed

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#2483416 14-May-2020 09:40

Froglotion:

*gas cylinders will clash with the fibre coming into the build, as it's most likely going to be in the exact same spot. Does not comply.

This is such a stupid rule, the ENT is in no way an ignition source is it?

EDIT: Regardless this is a rule, and I had to do some very precise measuring to get our gas bottle placements correct, and was forced to move where the services enter the building. But at the end of the day, if your building company is handling everything then it's their problem to figure out and resolve.

Froglotion

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#2483959 14-May-2020 19:10

Paul1977:

This is such a stupid rule, the ENT is in no way an ignition source is it?

EDIT: Regardless this is a rule, and I had to do some very precise measuring to get our gas bottle placements correct, and was forced to move where the services enter the building. But at the end of the day, if your building company is handling everything then it's their problem to figure out and resolve.

Basically the electrical people have said that yes, it can in fact create a source of ignition. How exactly, i'm not sure, I don't recall all the details. But what it basically meant was the gas board put out a "memo" about it and so that is howw it is now.

Relying on a builder to organise the services correctly is quite a stretch lol. It's just easier to resolve the problems before they can occur. You can just leave it to the trades to sort out, but that can lead to delays. I can't move the cylinders on a job without getting client go ahead. If they aren't contactable then I can't do my job etc. If you have the gas cylinders moved at the plan stage, then it removes that problem.

Jase2985

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#2483968 14-May-2020 19:28

i would say its because on older houses they may have had hybrid fiber (copper and fiber) going back to the ETP to connect voice circuits. which have voltage running through it.

easier for them to make a blanket rule for it rather than have to test and prove and potentially have someone wire it up in the future.

weasel13

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#2484060 14-May-2020 21:25

Not sure if someone has already mentioned it, but lighting placement in the kitchen should be over the bench top and not in the middle of the room, otherwise you will constantly get shadows with the light being behind you.

Paul1977

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#2484151 14-May-2020 23:24

weasel13: Not sure if someone has already mentioned it, but lighting placement in the kitchen should be over the bench top and not in the middle of the room, otherwise you will constantly get shadows with the light being behind you.

Good point, but a bit hard when the kitchen layout isn’t shown on the lighting plan.

What should happen is once the plan (and kitchen plan) is finalised and you’ve signed on the dotted line you’ll have a meeting directly with the electrician. You should also do a walk through with the electrician before they start the pre-wire.

I would highly recommend doing your own walkthrough once the roof is on and bracing removed before you do the walk through with the electrician. There’s not substitutes to actually be in the space when making decisions. That way you won’t be put on the spot quite as much.

Think about everything you use power for. I hadn’t even considered it until my mother asked where we will do our ironing, because you need a plug there.

And ALWAYS get pricing before agreeing to any variations. It’s incredibly easy to spend an additional $10K+ on electrical on what you think are minor upgrades. They just add up really quickly.

Oh, and get your landscape design before deciding on outdoor lighting. Better to plan lighting around your outdoor living than the other way around.

neb

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#2484153 14-May-2020 23:39

Paul1977: Think about everything you use power for.

And once you've got your power point allocation, double them in all rooms where it makes sense. There's a reason why every hardware store you go to has an entire section full of multi-way power boards, no room ever has enough power points.

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Froglotion

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#2484193 15-May-2020 08:39

Jase2985:
i would say its because on older houses they may have had hybrid fiber (copper and fiber) going back to the ETP to connect voice circuits. which have voltage running through it.

easier for them to make a blanket rule for it rather than have to test and prove and potentially have someone wire it up in the future.

Nah it was specific to fibre installs. Copper installs were already covered.

Paul1977

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#2484349 15-May-2020 11:52

neb: And once you've got your power point allocation, double them in all rooms where it makes sense. There's a reason why every hardware store you go to has an entire section full of multi-way power boards, no room ever has enough power points.

I'm not sure I totally agree.

I agree that the default allowance is never enough, but I changed several 4-way socket plugs down to doubles because I know I'll want a decent surge protected multi board there anyway. It is possible to go too far in the other direction and put in a bunch that you'll never use.

Although, my sparky did say he worked it out once, and on average it costs 7x more put put in a new power point into and existing house compared to during the initial build.

But one thing to seriously consider - power points in cupboards. Better to have your Dyson charging in the cupboard than out on a wall somewhere. And I did power and network into my spare bedroom/office wardrobe so can have multi-function printer in there instead of taking up heaps of desk space.

If you are having attic space, get lighting and power point up there as well.

Jase2985

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#2484389 15-May-2020 12:34

Froglotion:
Jase2985:

i would say its because on older houses they may have had hybrid fiber (copper and fiber) going back to the ETP to connect voice circuits. which have voltage running through it.

easier for them to make a blanket rule for it rather than have to test and prove and potentially have someone wire it up in the future.

Nah it was specific to fibre installs. Copper installs were already covered.

they can and do use a hybrid fibre/copper cable in some fiber installs to enable connection to the houses internal copper phone network. this is likely why it applies to fiber too

neb

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#2484448 15-May-2020 13:56

Paul1977:
I agree that the default allowance is never enough, but I changed several 4-way socket plugs down to doubles because I know I'll want a decent surge protected multi board there anyway.

I'd say that having 4-way outlets is a good thing because it means you're not tempted to plug in crappy "surge protected" power boards, a.k.a. shunt mode surge protection. And that writeup doesn't mention the fact that in most of NZ the chances of a surge, whatever that is, is essentially zero, and that with many cheap "surge-protected" boards you've just added a significant fire hazard to your house on the remote chance that a "surge" does actually happens.

billgates

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#2484458 15-May-2020 14:17

We have installed power points in all wardrobes and cupboards at top height so I can later automate with sensor and LED strip lighting myself. And a power point in laundry room cupboard for the dyson and space below benchtop in laundry room with a power point to accommodate like the size of Roomba S9+ with automatic waste dispenser unit. Go for double power points instead of single as cost difference is only like $5

Do whatever you want to do man.

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Paul1977

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#2484490 15-May-2020 15:19

I'm not sure, but you may struggle to get power points and wall lights on the wall in the master bedroom because of the cavity slider.

Froglotion

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#2484514 15-May-2020 16:07

Double plugs are all you really need, I think they are the best value too. Two double plugs vs a weird looking four plug for example. I think I have one, maybe two, multiboards plugged in at my place. One is for PC and i'm just guessing there is one more somewhere. I didn't put two lots of everything everywhere as A) it costs a lot, and B) you might change you mind on the location of things. When you have the walkthrough with the sparky they will have a good idea of what works well.

Jase2985:

they can and do use a hybrid fibre/copper cable in some fiber installs to enable connection to the houses internal copper phone network. this is likely why it applies to fiber too

I haven't worked on a new subdivision that is installing copper along with fibre, do they exist? Like I said though, the details I saw were SPECIFIC to fibre installs, zero mention of copper. Fibre itself can be a source of ignition, under normal circumstances it's not, that was investigated by someone. Just like an earth stake under normal conditions isn't really a source of ignition, but it certainly can be under the right (wrong) conditions. So along with copper, power, and earth stakes, fibre is on the list of things not to be installed in the exclusion zone of gas cylinders.

The whole point of my original comment was to save the OP time and hassle later on.

33coupe

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#2485015 16-May-2020 18:15

Thanks for the response, some great advice/knowledge there.
Will ask about HW placement and gas bottles, also light in the roof/attic.

Yeah I am a bit concerned about power and wall lights due to cavity sliders. I'm hoping we can still have this, have seen some stuff online about it being possible (shallow wall box etc.) Or making the wall sightly thicker. Will find out

Will definitely revisit the plugs locations, power in the wardrobes is a good idea for led strip down the track.

billgates

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#2485016 16-May-2020 18:24

@33coupe The sparky should be able to wire for a power point and electrical switch for 3 way lighting. We have the exact same situation where one side of the bed in master bedroom backs to WIR cavity slider frame so the sparky just ran the cables required for power point and light switch before hand and when they installed the GIB in front of the cavity slider frame, they puled his cables through. What he was not able to do though was which he mentioned before hand to have fixed wall lights next to the bed so we are settling for ceiling hung lights that drop down to side tables.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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