2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Awrrr
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#2718151 4-Jun-2021 10:37

Scott3:

There is precedence for this. For example NZ has a Border clearance levy to fund customs. Clearly customs services are for the benefit of New Zealand as a whole, rather than the traveler, but the likes of bag screaming etc wouldn't be needed if they didn't travel, so it is not unresonable that arrivals pay the levy.

That is a pretty narrow way of looking at it. A lot of people travel for business, and even many of those who don't, contribute to export income in various ways. Family separation issues are often overblown in the media but there are also genuine tragedies. People who travel are not just going to lie on a tropical beach somewhere.

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Technofreak

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#2718156 4-Jun-2021 10:50

I recommend listening to this podcast to get one expert's view on how well New Zealand has handled Covid 19.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-episode-105-april-7th-2021/

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hairy1

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#2718170 4-Jun-2021 11:20

Is that a real link @technofreak? NewstalkZB getting a real expert on? Are you sure? Surely Hosking is the actual expert.... hehe. All in jest....

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

Scott3

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#2718186 4-Jun-2021 11:28

Rikkitic:

Scott3:

There is precedence for this. For example NZ has a Border clearance levy to fund customs. Clearly customs services are for the benefit of New Zealand as a whole, rather than the traveler, but the likes of bag screaming etc wouldn't be needed if they didn't travel, so it is not unresonable that arrivals pay the levy.

That is a pretty narrow way of looking at it. A lot of people travel for business, and even many of those who don't, contribute to export income in various ways. Family separation issues are often overblown in the media but there are also genuine tragedies. People who travel are not just going to lie on a tropical beach somewhere.

Do you think the general taxpayer should funding the NZ$17.17 Air departure Border clearance levy rather than the travelers?

I get that a lot of people travel for business, but the taxpayer subsidizing the true cost of travel, creates the incentive for more business travel. Not only is this bad environmentally, but in a global pandemic creates risk to the country (for every 200 positive covid-19 cases turning up in quarantine in aussie, there is roughly one leak).

I do know of people who have traveled to Europe for pure tourism purposes (multi month trip) despite the pandemic. They are allowed to, and I am OK with them making this decision, but I think it is a bit unfair on the taxpayer that they have to pay for half the cost of their MIQ when they return.

Re the Family separation issues, I know of a few, generally it is the visa rules rather than the cost that is causing the issue. I think the Border clearance levy is so cheap that it is unlikely to cause financial hardship, but for the MIQ fees there is a waiver process if it is going to cause financial hardship.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2718190 4-Jun-2021 11:38

I was referring more to the principle and returning travellers than the Border clearance levy specifically. Anyone who can't afford that shouldn't be travelling anyway. Also, I have doubts about the judgement of anyone making a tourist visit to Europe these days. Those who do should pay the full price of their quarantine when they get back. But people who are caught overseas through no fault of their own, or are compelled to travel for reasons beyond their control, such as medical treatment or family emergencies, should be granted a little leeway.

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Technofreak

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#2718198 4-Jun-2021 11:54

Rikkitic:

I was referring more to the principle and returning travellers than the Border clearance levy specifically. Anyone who can't afford that shouldn't be travelling anyway. Also, I have doubts about the judgement of anyone making a tourist visit to Europe these days. Those who do should pay the full price of their quarantine when they get back. But people who are caught overseas through no fault of their own, or are compelled to travel for reasons beyond their control, such as medical treatment or family emergencies, should be granted a little leeway.

There's always room for exceptions but as a general rule if you want to come back here, you pay in my book. Just being caught overseas through no fault of their own shouldn't automatically qualify anyone for free MIQ.

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Technofreak

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#2718200 4-Jun-2021 11:56

hairy1:

Is that a real link @technofreak? NewstalkZB getting a real expert on? Are you sure? Surely Hosking is the actual expert.... hehe. All in jest....

Jesting accepted😀

Some might think Hoskins is an expert but really he is just someone with an opinion, like most of us, but he has a vehicle to get his opinion heard.

The guy I refer to in that podcast has earned the right to be called an expert. Have a listen, what he has to say is quite thought provoking even if you don't agree with all he says.

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hairy1

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#2718207 4-Jun-2021 12:12

Yes. Agreed. A lot of stuff out of ZB is just reckons attached to a loud voice. It was really a dig at ZB rather than the podcast which has an actual expert.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

wellygary

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#2718211 4-Jun-2021 12:26

Technofreak:

The guy I refer to in that podcast has earned the right to be called an expert. Have a listen, what he has to say is quite thought provoking even if you don't agree with all he says.

The "guy" is Des Gorman and has been ragging on the NZ response since pretty much Day 1, This was from August 2020

“Our tendency to keep telling ourselves how well we had done left us poorly placed the second time around,” Gorman said.

“We saw this beginning during the first lockdown, parading our best show. For example the prime minister said we had closed the border faster than anyone had. But given we were the 60th country to have a case, not the first, that's really missing the point.

“Then on March 12 WHO declared Covid-19 as a world pandemic and it still took a week for us to close the border. So suddenly it became important for us to be ‘best in show’.”

“This isn’t just a criticism of the prime minister or the minister of health, it’s a criticism of you and me, because we have almost this inferiority complex. Our sense of smallness and isolation means we have this propensity for people to like us and be impressed by us.”

Gorman believed New Zealand got caught up in a ‘’euphoria’’ of victory over the virus, which then led to complacency.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122530826/coronavirus-new-zealand-got-caught-out-by-the-euphoria-of-beating-covid19

tdgeek

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#2718218 4-Jun-2021 12:42

Euphoria? Best in Show? I guess it's quite sensational

What I've seen was a time when Covid was the daily driver of discussion, 1pm rolls around. It isn't now. While he may say its euphoria and patting ourselves on the back and Googling for best in class Covid stats, what Ive seen is people well and truly moved on, and ages ago. It's not here which is generally correct, so people moved on, living their life not bothering to worry or think about Covid. Thats why we are slack with masks and washing and scanning. Not because we are big headed and think about we beat Covid every day, Covid for many is last years news. From a safety point of view that's not entirely unresonable, but from a future contact tracing view it's a problem. But euphoria etc, give me a break. Complacency is because its not here, human nature

Handle9

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#2718312 4-Jun-2021 14:31

hairy1:

Is that a real link @technofreak? NewstalkZB getting a real expert on? Are you sure? Surely Hosking is the actual expert.... hehe. All in jest....

No, according to Leighton Smith Trump is the expert...

csuttonnzl

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#2718327 4-Jun-2021 15:05

New CT in Victoria not related to the original outbreak.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-04/vic-delta-variant-of-coronavirus-detected-in-australia/100190460

tdgeek

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#2718328 4-Jun-2021 15:05

Two cases of Delta variant B.1617.2 in Melbourne

The concern is that these two cases are unrelated to all other known CT cases in the Melbourne outbreak. Potentially a new source, over and above what Melbourne currently is seeing.

Hopefully as they sequence more, it becomes a "normal" CT transmission with a known source

tdgeek

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#2718331 4-Jun-2021 15:16

I;m sure they will sequence more and arrive at a conclusion where a known person was now found to be the importer of this variant so there is no cluster within this cluster. But it goes to show that the lag between entry to the population and when we find out is large and worriesome. Right now there are probably things going on that we will find out in 10 days time. This isnt the same game as MIQ leaks when a travel bubble is part of it

wellygary

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#2718360 4-Jun-2021 16:13

tdgeek:

Two cases of Delta variant B.1617.2 in Melbourne

The concern is that these two cases are unrelated to all other known CT cases in the Melbourne outbreak. Potentially a new source, over and above what Melbourne currently is seeing.

Hopefully as they sequence more, it becomes a "normal" CT transmission with a known source

Yes, but they still haven't got an epidemical link of the first case back to the person from the SA medi-hotel...

We never found out how the Feb outbreak happened either....

It Might be time to require a bit more departure testing in OZ for our bubble...

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