2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2754362 3-Aug-2021 12:14

GV27:

It was definitely getting into the 'entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts' territory. This thread has been quite constructive and useful for me keeping up with the pandemic from various sourcess and that's a sideshow the thread doesn't need.

Agree GV, its a serious problem, all the flu comparisons were back in Match 2020. Thanks to a select few here, the rest of us learn a lot and keep up with developments

Fred99

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#2754367 3-Aug-2021 12:21

Fred99:

(Even with Delta resulting in more breakthrough infections, if ADE was a thing then it conflicts with clear evidence that being vaccinated massively reduces the chance of getting severe covid)

Just an afterthought to that, if ADE was going to be a thing (ie as is probably the case with Dengue), then breakthrough infections of new strains in people who've had infections from earlier strains is IMO more likely to be an issue than ADE induced by vaccines targeting the spike protein.

Fred99

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#2754371 3-Aug-2021 12:31

wellygary:

Note, salary scale on the y axis starts at 30K.... makes the offered increases in nurses salaries seem bigger

Also makes the differential in pay between jobs seem much larger than it is.

Fred99

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#2754383 3-Aug-2021 13:06

dafman:

KrazyKid:

Personally I find this a disappointing decision. Fourpeak only stated their opinion, didn't try to spread any false statements and only crime seems to be willing to not explain their opinion further when pressed.

Banning people from a discussion forum for basically stating personal view is not going to convince anyone to change there mind.

(I also strong disagree with those who aggressively insulted Fourpeak for the same reason - insults are not going to change anyone's opinion.)

I have had my second covid shot as I an immune compromised and personally wish we would magically get to 100% of population vaccinated (Sadly don't see how that will happen) so can't be called an anti-vaxx person my any measure.

+1. Fully endorse above comments

Well I find it alarming that a few posters here choose to ignore that deliberate spread of misinformation undoubtedly contributed to spread of a disease that's killed more than 4 million (and possibly many more) and that realisation of that has resulted in bans on people spreading false information about vaccines on almost all social media platforms in order to try to prevent even more chaos. You seem to be arguing that GZ should set a worse example.

They weren't "personal views" - they were regurgitated false information being circulated by anti-vaxxers and I have no expectation that they will change their minds.

Not sure why you'd be "disappointed" or have any expectation that GZ would transform itself into some bastion for absolute total free-speech. It's never been that - always had moderated forums and a FUG since I've been a member, and the result has been entirely reasonable

Scott3

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#2754384 3-Aug-2021 13:09

Vaccination data is released daily now.

Yesterday / Total

First dose administered 25465 1221289

Second dose administered 9390 757331

Total doses administered 34855 1978620

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

Government has substantially missed its own expectations regards to deciding if to us use the pfizer vaccine in 12 -16 year olds by the end of June.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300338584/covid19-pfizer-vaccine-approved-for-use-in-12-to-15yearolds-in-new-zealand

dafman

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#2754412 3-Aug-2021 13:36

Fred99:

Well I find it alarming that a few posters here choose to ignore that deliberate spread of misinformation undoubtedly contributed to spread of a disease that's killed more than 4 million (and possibly many more) and that realisation of that has resulted in bans on people spreading false information about vaccines on almost all social media platforms in order to try to prevent even more chaos. You seem to be arguing that GZ should set a worse example.

They weren't "personal views" - they were regurgitated false information being circulated by anti-vaxxers and I have no expectation that they will change their minds.

Not sure why you'd be "disappointed" or have any expectation that GZ would transform itself into some bastion for absolute total free-speech. It's never been that - always had moderated forums and a FUG since I've been a member, and the result has been entirely reasonable

I didn't read 'regurgitated false information', I read personal views that were consistent with many others who are genuinely hesitant about MRNA. Insulting people, or cutting them out of the conservation all together, is not going to help get them over the line.

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ezbee

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#2754420 3-Aug-2021 13:55

12-18s approved in USA and some countries, 8.8 Million under 18s have already been vaccinated with Pfizer for example.
I guess it will be a while before we start vaccinating, as are still going through the months of older age groups anyway.

Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine is approved for children above 12, but where are we up to with younger kids?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-07-28/pfizer-covid-vaccine-trials-in-us-babies-young-children/100324816

""
At just 10 months of age, Soren Good and his three-year-old brother Andel are among the youngest recipients of the Pfizer vaccine.

The siblings took part in phase I clinical trials of the vaccine in the US.
""
Pfizer said it expected its data for the trials in children aged two to 11 to be handed down by September.

For children aged 6 months to two years, it will be later in the year.
""

empacher48

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#2754483 3-Aug-2021 14:16

ezbee:

Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine is approved for children above 12, but where are we up to with younger kids?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-07-28/pfizer-covid-vaccine-trials-in-us-babies-young-children/100324816

As of a week ago, they were almost finished but the FDA has asked them to go a bit further just to keep an eye on the heart inflammation side effect.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/26/us/politics/fda-covid-vaccine-trials-children.html

This is both for Pfizer and Moderna. The AstraZeneca one was paused while the blood clot side effect was studied more.

Fred99

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#2754489 3-Aug-2021 14:25

dafman:

I didn't read 'regurgitated false information', I read personal views that were consistent with many others who are genuinely hesitant about MRNA. Insulting people, or cutting them out of the conservation all together, is not going to help get them over the line.

You'll never get true anti-vaxxers over the line.

The jokes about the extreme nutters 5g CT etc probably lead to expectation that those obvious idiots are the main problem. They aren't.

Wikipedia seem to have a reasonable summary of CT and false information about mRNA vaccines:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Role_of_mRNA

The OP was an anti-vaxxer coming in to the thread (first posts?) to spread FUD. Unless refuted, those you mention who may be "hesitant" might be inclined to become more hesitant. Or you just ignore the false information?

If you have a problem with the ban - don't complain to me. Wasn't my decision (though I fully support it).

dafman

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#2754508 3-Aug-2021 14:43

Fred99:

dafman:

I didn't read 'regurgitated false information', I read personal views that were consistent with many others who are genuinely hesitant about MRNA. Insulting people, or cutting them out of the conservation all together, is not going to help get them over the line.

You'll never get true anti-vaxxers over the line.

The jokes about the extreme nutters 5g CT etc probably lead to expectation that those obvious idiots are the main problem. They aren't.

Wikipedia seem to have a reasonable summary of CT and false information about mRNA vaccines:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Role_of_mRNA

The OP was an anti-vaxxer coming in to the thread (first posts?) to spread FUD. Unless refuted, those you mention who may be "hesitant" might be inclined to become more hesitant. Or you just ignore the false information?

If you have a problem with the ban - don't complain to me. Wasn't my decision (though I fully support it).

I didn't complain to you.

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#2754518 3-Aug-2021 14:57

Fred99:

You'll never get true anti-vaxxers over the line.

Yeah my fiancée's brother in law decided to ban us all from seeing the little nieces because they're anti-vaxxers and we're getting vaccinated. Yet they complain about them getting sick 24/7 and the brother in law himself does stupid things like fasting and not actually cleaning themselves.

Me, the in laws and my fiancée are at a complete loss on what we can actually do to try and turn this situation around but they're also religious and believe the heaven almighty one up above will protect them all.

Yeah right.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

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Batman

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#2754519 3-Aug-2021 15:00

More cases in nsw qld

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/125950869/covid19-in-australia-delta-outbreaks-still-growing-in-queensland-nsw-and-victoria

frankv

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#2754520 3-Aug-2021 15:03

Fred99:

The OP was an anti-vaxxer coming in to the thread (first posts?) to spread FUD. Unless refuted, those you mention who may be "hesitant" might be inclined to become more hesitant.

Totally agree. I think it's important that every anti-vaxx FUD social media post be challenged, the nonsense of their "common sense" exposed, and especially they should be challenged to provide citations and a scientific basis for their assertions as in "put up or it's bullshit".

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

KrazyKid

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#2754539 3-Aug-2021 15:39

Challenged yes.

Talked to yes.

Explained with yes

Insulted no.

I don't think you will change many minds quickly, and probably none in a forum in the internet or via social media.
You really need to have conversations were you present the facts, correct mistakes and take time to listen to people.

But as long as the are not derailing thread thread or spreading miss-information why ban them?

It's not my call but I would have done things less reactively.

Part of it is because we are on the internet and not face to face, this encourages different social standards.

Anyway I do like the info on this thread. I'll move on now.

dafman

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#2754549 3-Aug-2021 16:03

frankv:

Fred99:

The OP was an anti-vaxxer coming in to the thread (first posts?) to spread FUD. Unless refuted, those you mention who may be "hesitant" might be inclined to become more hesitant.

Totally agree. I think it's important that every anti-vaxx FUD social media post be challenged, the nonsense of their "common sense" exposed, and especially they should be challenged to provide citations and a scientific basis for their assertions as in "put up or it's bullshit".

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

I have a close friend who has decided to not take up the vaccine at this time as they have concerns about the 'newness' of MRNA.

I am sharing information with them and, with time and patience, hoping to get them over the line so they do the sensible thing and get vaccinated - something I would have absolutely no luck of doing if I refused to engage with them or resorted along the lines of telling them:

Put up or its bullshit (frankv), or
More pure unadulterated antivax BS (Fred99)

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