EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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1049 posts

Uber Geek

#2092034 17-Sep-2018 16:04

MikeAqua:

Wellington's trial BEV bus has it's batteries mounted on the roof.

Why would you do that - a large amount of weight up high, which can't be great for stability.

On the subject of Wellington Electric buses, one morning a week or so back, on the #1 route into town they had one of the new Electric double decker buses operating. Most mornings lately have been utilizing the diesel double decker buses.

A couple of my observations from the trip in on the electric double decker bus:

1) The electric double decker bus is smaller than the conventional diesel double decker buses (single rear axle instead of the two)

2) The ride felt a lot firmer than the conventional diesel bus

3) On the top deck, just in front of the stairs, there is a massive white box thing. Unsure what it is. maybe more batteries.

4) The ride felt a bit more jolting as the bus moved away from a stop. Hard to explain, but with the diesel buses as engine power and torque increase as revs rise, it's a smooth movement, but with the electric bus and instant torque from effectively 0 revs it's a jump sudden movement. This isn't down to the driver, as the route and time have had the same driver for the last few weeks.

Dinga96

123 posts

Master Geek

#2092068 17-Sep-2018 17:23

WyleECoyoteNZ:

MikeAqua:

Wellington's trial BEV bus has it's batteries mounted on the roof.

Why would you do that - a large amount of weight up high, which can't be great for stability.

On the subject of Wellington Electric buses, one morning a week or so back, on the #1 route into town they had one of the new Electric double decker buses operating. Most mornings lately have been utilizing the diesel double decker buses.

A couple of my observations from the trip in on the electric double decker bus:

1) The electric double decker bus is smaller than the conventional diesel double decker buses (single rear axle instead of the two)

2) The ride felt a lot firmer than the conventional diesel bus

3) On the top deck, just in front of the stairs, there is a massive white box thing. Unsure what it is. maybe more batteries.

4) The ride felt a bit more jolting as the bus moved away from a stop. Hard to explain, but with the diesel buses as engine power and torque increase as revs rise, it's a smooth movement, but with the electric bus and instant torque from effectively 0 revs it's a jump sudden movement. This isn't down to the driver, as the route and time have had the same driver for the last few weeks.

Busman probably just needs to adjust his driving style a tad ,your driver is so used to diesel driving he forgets to ease off the pedal when he is moving off in the EBus.

richms

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#2092221 17-Sep-2018 23:12

tripper1000:

Incandescent bulbs will naturally go the way of the VCR and cassettes. I bet those retailers were also the last ones stocking blank VHS tapes and CRT TV cabinets.

A 75 watt light-bulb uses the same power in a week (8 hours per night) as a 2kw clothes drier uses in 1 hour. Point is that when talking about bayonet or ES bulbs, power to be saved there by forcing everyone to change to LED is miniscule and simply not worth the reward. Arguable, investing in clothes lines would be more cost effective than LED bulbs.

Dryer gets clothes done in 55 mins normally, its 2200 watts to start with but drops during the process. Uses 1.5-1.8kWh on average per load. 25c-30c. Im not hanging things out and getting them in to save 25c. Even if I was on a terrible rate it wouldnt be worth the effort to save the money.

If someone is still using grandma's old F&P 180 min timed full heat all the time dinosaur to dry out their clothes, then perhaps they could be worth hanging out instead. But the issue is the use of old junk instead of a modern efficient dryer.

Power usage is dropping on average as people get more efficient appliances, live in warmer housing and actually bother to try to use less, so plenty of scope for cars to charge without using too much more overall.

I saw someone buying a box of the 10 cheap incandesent lamps at bunnings. Guess its either for a rental or they have money to burn buying them. Oh well each to their own, wouldnt want to ban them just to save some people some money.

Richard rich.ms

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#2092225 17-Sep-2018 23:27

richms:

tripper1000:

Incandescent bulbs will naturally go the way of the VCR and cassettes. I bet those retailers were also the last ones stocking blank VHS tapes and CRT TV cabinets.

A 75 watt light-bulb uses the same power in a week (8 hours per night) as a 2kw clothes drier uses in 1 hour. Point is that when talking about bayonet or ES bulbs, power to be saved there by forcing everyone to change to LED is miniscule and simply not worth the reward. Arguable, investing in clothes lines would be more cost effective than LED bulbs.

Dryer gets clothes done in 55 mins normally, its 2200 watts to start with but drops during the process. Uses 1.5-1.8kWh on average per load. 25c-30c. Im not hanging things out and getting them in to save 25c. Even if I was on a terrible rate it wouldnt be worth the effort to save the money.

If someone is still using grandma's old F&P 180 min timed full heat all the time dinosaur to dry out their clothes, then perhaps they could be worth hanging out instead. But the issue is the use of old junk instead of a modern efficient dryer.

Power usage is dropping on average as people get more efficient appliances, live in warmer housing and actually bother to try to use less, so plenty of scope for cars to charge without using too much more overall.

I saw someone buying a box of the 10 cheap incandesent lamps at bunnings. Guess its either for a rental or they have money to burn buying them. Oh well each to their own, wouldnt want to ban them just to save some people some money.

I know a guy who believes LED and the power saving lights are bad for health. So he only has incandescent bulbs.

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2092401 18-Sep-2018 10:53

richms:

.....Im not hanging things out and getting them in to save 25c. Even if I was on a terrible rate it wouldnt be worth the effort to save the money.....

I saw someone buying a box of the 10 cheap incandesent lamps at bunnings. Guess its either for a rental or they have money to burn buying them. Oh well each to their own, wouldnt want to ban them just to save some people some money.

You've illustrated my point quite nicely. Its a contradiction forcing people to buy LED's and save maybe 50c per week when people (such as yourself) are happy to spend/blow 25c to 50c per hour on a convenience.

The guy you saw buying incandescent's may not own a drier and so may be far more eco than you/me, even with his non-eco bulbs.

blakamin

4431 posts

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#2092827 18-Sep-2018 20:30

I've got 10 bulbs in my lounge... Glad I use LED, because our electricity is probably twice the price of yours

We also have solar so only run the dryer when the sun shines... :D (and the dishwasher, washing machine, AirCon mostly)

DjShadow

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#2093982 20-Sep-2018 17:44

For those who have not seen it, this is what the Battery converted trolley bus in Wellington now looks like

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Dinga96

123 posts

Master Geek

#2094103 20-Sep-2018 19:57

DjShadow:

For those who have not seen it, this is what the Battery converted trolley bus in Wellington now looks like

The bluish electric looks okay not to sure about the mat black look.Maybe its a work in progress!

Scott3

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#2094188 20-Sep-2018 22:32

DjShadow:

For those who have not seen it, this is what the Battery converted trolley bus in Wellington now looks like

Does that have the Wrightspeed Plug in hybrid drive-train? or some other technology?

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2094225 21-Sep-2018 07:23

Scott3:
DjShadow:

For those who have not seen it, this is what the Battery converted trolley bus in Wellington now looks like

Does that have the Wrightspeed Plug in hybrid drive-train? or some other technology?

No, That turned in to a bust, its a regular lithium battery bus now...

The colour is just for show, NZ BUs are intending to convert the rest of the former trolley buses to batteries, in the next 6 months, and when they enter regular service, they will be in regular metlink vomit-green

They have scored a 750K grant from EECA for some fast chargers too

https://www.eeca.govt.nz/assets/Resources-EECA/LEV-Contestable-Fund/LEVCF-approved-projects-round-4.pdf

3.NZ Bus Ltd $763,668 Depot charging infrastructure for a fleet of pure electric buses

NZ Bus will install charging infrastructure at two bus depots to support a significant fleet of over 50 pure attery electric buses. The electric buses will be rolled out by converting the old Wellington trolley buses. With night time charging, the project will deliver lower emissions while avoiding peak electricity prices and istribution network congestion. The high visibility electric buses will operate out of the Karori and Kilbirnie depots, nd are expected to be on the road from January 2019

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2094344 21-Sep-2018 09:40

That linked pdf has lots of interesting stuff in it about expansion of the fast charge network and EV projects all over the country. Well worth a read.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2094403 21-Sep-2018 11:22

tripper1000:
richms:

.....Im not hanging things out and getting them in to save 25c. Even if I was on a terrible rate it wouldnt be worth the effort to save the money.....

I saw someone buying a box of the 10 cheap incandesent lamps at bunnings. Guess its either for a rental or they have money to burn buying them. Oh well each to their own, wouldnt want to ban them just to save some people some money.

You've illustrated my point quite nicely. Its a contradiction forcing people to buy LED's and save maybe 50c per week when people (such as yourself) are happy to spend/blow 25c to 50c per hour on a convenience.

The guy you saw buying incandescent's may not own a drier and so may be far more eco than you/me, even with his non-eco bulbs.

The person buying the incandescent lamps might need them for small fully enclosed fittings. As LED lamps often die from overheating in such fittings. Maybe they have dimmers that are not suitable for LEDs.

The cost of getting electrical work done to support LEDs could be far more than what they would save on power. Especially if they live in a rental property.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2094573 21-Sep-2018 14:30

Well we have cracked 10K

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1809/S00286/10000-electric-vehicles-on-nz-roads.htm

But when you actually look at the data it is not too flash, growth has topped out at about 500 a month, (the numbers get squiffy with the impact of the stink bugs earlier in the year, but the growth in fleet growth looks to have slowed.... or even stalled... or with respect to used imports it may be declining,....

https://www.transport.govt.nz/resources/vehicle-fleet-statistics/monthly-electric-and-hybrid-light-vehicle-registrations/

The ability to obtain 2nd vehicles was always the big flaw in the 60,000 target.....

japan only crossed the 100K leaf mark earlier this year,

Linuxluver

5828 posts

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#2094727 21-Sep-2018 18:34

SaltyNZ:

kingdragonfly:

Seating expert Lear Corporation will create 220 jobs and safeguard another 600 with a [$70 million NZD] investment, including £35m in engineering.

'Seating expert'?

Yeah. They make Lear jets....and have invested a lot of time and research into seating...and it looks like they are a contractor for seating in vehicles that needs seats.......and it's actually huge part of their business.

Clever.

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Linuxluver

5828 posts

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#2094728 21-Sep-2018 18:48

GV27:

Payback periods on solar are about twenty years. It just doesn't add up at the moment. Better to wait for the price to drop world-wide than spend a heap of our limited cashpayer funds on feel-good tech that will only get cheaper/better over time.

The "payback" analysis usually doesn't stand up on several counts:

1. They don't put any value on the resilience society / economy gains from NOT having everyone go lights-out in the event of a grid interruption. Let's try factoring in the cost of dealing with thousands of homes and businesses without power for days / weeks in the event og earthquakes, floods, storms.

2. The value in not having to build additional generation capacity.

3. The value in the North Island in particular of reducing emissions by needing less power generated from fossil fuels.

If all the accounting looks at is the microscope of the individual householder and compares it ONLY to the cost of a kWh from the grid.....yeah, it falls short.

That isn't how we should be seeing it.

Ten years ago they wanted to spend $600 million on a new hydro scheme near Nelson....and it would take a decade to build.

That same money (at $20k / house) could put significant solar with batteries on 30,000 homes on the North Island....and you begin to see the benefit from the first installation. If the home owners pay half then we're talking about 60,000 homes.....and that was more power than this hydro scheme was ever going to generate....and these panels can feed power back into the grid for grid-scale storage for later use.

It makes sense for this to NOT be left to individuals......when there are huge benefits to be derived from making it a defacto social asset and civil defense strategy. Prioritize people who are remote and frequently without grid power, as well as people in high risk earthquake area: Wellington, Napier....etc.

It's a no brainer from the Big Picture point of view...and it handily and easily addresses how we charge EVs if the grid goes down.

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I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

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