Nissan LEAF - General

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1617 posts

Uber Geek

#3171135 12-Dec-2023 16:31

I think the playing field is changing too rapidly for the blade (in its original form) to work any more.

If you Google Catl battery Nissan Leaf, you will see that you can buy kits from AliExpress Et al, to convert a 24kw Leaf Battery to 40kw (with room to spare). There are people in Europe who can reprogram the Nissan LBC/BMS to suit your chosen battery chemistry & capacity. Re-lifing old Leaves has never been easier.

Again you still have to weight the benefit (or not) of keeping the old body.

I believe Catl is the brand being used in many EV's including Tesla's out of China, so not to be dismissed.

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171266 12-Dec-2023 22:33

What they need to really drive home is that none of those options will probably mean you are insured if your leaf burns your house down. Ev fires aren't as common as they are made out to be but if every randomer starts playing with 400V of power swapping batteries out fires will be more prevalent from faulty wiring. I'd rather pay to know it's been done right and is compliant and safe. But you can't deny that it will be putting pressure on their product, I wouldn't be surprised to see them consider upping the capacity to give it some form of usp over just swapping cars.

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171674 14-Dec-2023 11:25

I'm looking for a cheap Leaf as a second car. Only requirements I have are side airbags and 90km+ range. Budget <$8k

I have assumed that any gen 1 leaf (< 2014) have side airbags by default, and any gen2 leaf had this as an option, correct?

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

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Trusted

#3171677 14-Dec-2023 11:55

boland:

I'm looking for a cheap Leaf as a second car. Only requirements I have are side airbags and 90km+ range. Budget <$8k

I have assumed that any gen 1 leaf (< 2014) have side airbags by default, and any gen2 leaf had this as an option, correct?

Ah, I'd have had one to sell you a couple of months back, but already sold; got well under $8k for it too so hopefully you'll find something as good a value.

IIRC not many G1 Leafs (Leaves?) have a full suite of airbags - my recollection (which could be wrong) was the standard for G1 was two airbags; I think ours (a 2013) had seven or so. That also had been a requirement when we bought it back in 2017 (as it was my wife's daily drive with kids in it). I recall there were few options at the time, and we definitely paid a premium because of this. (I wish this had flowed through to the s/h market!).

BTW, are you using 'G1' and 'G2' to diferentiate between the mid-life changes made to the original shape? It gets confusing as it's more commonly used now to distinguish between the totally different body shapes, so perhaps safer to refer to the earlier model with relatively minor differences as 1.1 and 1.2 or similar!

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3171678 14-Dec-2023 12:00

boland:

I'm looking for a cheap Leaf as a second car. Only requirements I have are side airbags and 90km+ range. Budget <$8k

I have assumed that any gen 1 leaf (< 2014) have side airbags by default, and any gen2 leaf had this as an option, correct?

As well as year models it's worth filtering for spec levels. There's quite a difference between S, X & G versions as well as the features that were actually ordered by the original owner (for ex-Japanese imports).

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3171680 14-Dec-2023 12:04

HarmLessSolutions:

boland:

I'm looking for a cheap Leaf as a second car. Only requirements I have are side airbags and 90km+ range. Budget <$8k

I have assumed that any gen 1 leaf (< 2014) have side airbags by default, and any gen2 leaf had this as an option, correct?

As well as year models it's worth filtering for spec levels. There's quite a difference between S, X & G versions as well as the features that were actually ordered by the original owner (for ex-Japanese imports).

And IIRC the full suite of airbags is not one of those things that was directly linked to spec levels, but rather would have been optioned by the buyer, so that adds another complexity of matching the preferred spec to additional airbags.

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171683 14-Dec-2023 12:12

Thanks! Yes it's very hard to search, and some of the private dealers have no idea whether they have 10 airbags or not. Some even reply "just ask AA" :/

I'm referring to Gen 1.1 and Gen 1.2 :)

I believe side airbags were standard in Gen 1.1 but can't find any information about it.

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GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#3171684 14-Dec-2023 12:18

tripper1000:

I think the playing field is changing too rapidly for the blade (in its original form) to work any more.

At this point I'm hoping any hold-ups are related to better material options for the cells themselves - there's certainly a bit coming to market in the next couple of months for new vehicles in terms of chemistries but the absence of any updates at all is not super encouraging.

smac

333 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171695 14-Dec-2023 13:07

The whole selling point of the blade system for the old Leaf's was better design (active cooling, better chemistry etc). That is all out the window now with the arrival of the cheaper Chinese EV's. The only thing that will shift the product now will be price. It's a shame though, because a whole lot of otherwise perfectly good 24KWH Leafs are gonna hit the wreckers yard.

A far better and probably still viable model now would be selling and fitting referb'd original battery packs. i.e. if somebody could offer "drive your <50% SOH car in and drive it out with 80+ SOH for 5K" ...that would sell like hotcakes IMHO.

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171698 14-Dec-2023 13:19

A question regarding SoH: Based on what I've read, degradation occurs mainly from quick charging, and just generally over time. Is is therefore correct to assume that if e.g. a 2014 car with 80% SOH is preferable over a 2017 car with same SOH, even though the first one is 3 years older.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3171699 14-Dec-2023 13:24

smac:

The whole selling point of the blade system for the old Leaf's was better design (active cooling, better chemistry etc). That is all out the window now with the arrival of the cheaper Chinese EV's. The only thing that will shift the product now will be price. It's a shame though, because a whole lot of otherwise perfectly good 24KWH Leafs are gonna hit the wreckers yard.

A far better and probably still viable model now would be selling and fitting referb'd original battery packs. i.e. if somebody could offer "drive your <50% SOH car in and drive it out with 80+ SOH for 5K" ...that would sell like hotcakes IMHO.

Changing out older low SoH Leaf batteries with higher SoH/capacity ones is something that EVs Enhanced have been doing for a few years but the problem was that the available donor numbers were insufficient. Their development of the aftermarket '16 blade' replacements I guess was a way for them to stimulate a downstream feed of donor batteries, apart from the sale of the 16 blade one initially. Their website offers a price calculator for prospective buyers based on existing and potential battery size and SoH.

https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-battery-swaps-and-upgrades/ (bottom of page)

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3171703 14-Dec-2023 13:37

boland:

A question regarding SoH: Based on what I've read, degradation occurs mainly from quick charging, and just generally over time. Is is therefore correct to assume that if e.g. a 2014 car with 80% SOH is preferable over a 2017 car with same SOH, even though the first one is 3 years older.

From what I've seen the degradation caused by DC charging is more significant if it has been done under highway journey conditions where the battery has been drawn down heavily at high speeds followed by DC charging (i.e. sustained battery heating). In the case of a city (apartment) dweller who tops up on a convenient DC charger as part of his daily commute the degradation is less significant.

I've seen 2ndhand Leafs with high QC stat's with better SoH battery SoH than otherwise comparable ones with lower SoH but less QCs. If you're shopping around in a seller's yard it's worth noting QC count (ex-Leafspy) vs. SoH if they will devulge that info to you. It's quite enlightening.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3171746 14-Dec-2023 15:53

HarmLessSolutions:

boland:

A question regarding SoH: Based on what I've read, degradation occurs mainly from quick charging, and just generally over time. Is is therefore correct to assume that if e.g. a 2014 car with 80% SOH is preferable over a 2017 car with same SOH, even though the first one is 3 years older.

From what I've seen the degradation caused by DC charging is more significant if it has been done under highway journey conditions where the battery has been drawn down heavily at high speeds followed by DC charging (i.e. sustained battery heating). In the case of a city (apartment) dweller who tops up on a convenient DC charger as part of his daily commute the degradation is less significant.

I've seen 2ndhand Leafs with high QC stat's with better SoH battery SoH than otherwise comparable ones with lower SoH but less QCs. If you're shopping around in a seller's yard it's worth noting QC count (ex-Leafspy) vs. SoH if they will devulge that info to you. It's quite enlightening.

Thanks, makes sense.

What if there are two cars with similar number of QC's, one 2014, one from 2017, and they both have e.g. 70% SOH? Then I'd assume the 2014 one is better as that one seems to suffer less from time based degradation.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3171752 14-Dec-2023 16:05

boland:

HarmLessSolutions:

From what I've seen the degradation caused by DC charging is more significant if it has been done under highway journey conditions where the battery has been drawn down heavily at high speeds followed by DC charging (i.e. sustained battery heating). In the case of a city (apartment) dweller who tops up on a convenient DC charger as part of his daily commute the degradation is less significant.

I've seen 2ndhand Leafs with high QC stat's with better SoH battery SoH than otherwise comparable ones with lower SoH but less QCs. If you're shopping around in a seller's yard it's worth noting QC count (ex-Leafspy) vs. SoH if they will devulge that info to you. It's quite enlightening.

Thanks, makes sense.

What if there are two cars with similar number of QC's, one 2014, one from 2017, and they both have e.g. 70% SOH? Then I'd assume the 2014 one is better as that one seems to suffer less from time based degradation.

In that situation I'd be more inclined to think that the key factor would be that the usage model so far as QC particulars would be more relevant in regard to the SoH than car's age.

If QC count, SoH, extras and physical condition were similar I'd go for the younger car. We were faced with just this scenario recently and the car age was the winning factor (despite the other Leaf having a dashcam fitted) as it just felt tighter to drive, as in more like a newer vehicle.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3172233 16-Dec-2023 09:12

Just wondering, what are currently the options when a Leaf's battery is end of life? Is there any battery recycling system in place? Or should I just drive it to the scrap yard and that's it?

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