EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2597349 4-Nov-2020 06:08

Scott3:

@Dingbatt, can I ask what the appeal of a Escape PHEV is over the likes of a widely available 2.4L Outlander PHEV. They seem similar in many regards.

Speaking as someone also interested in a PHEV as my next car, the reports of relatively fast battery degradation in the Outlander has been enough to put me off this as an option. My ideal scenario would be the RAV4 Prime being released here alongside the introduction of the feebate scheme!

Dingbatt

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#2597362 4-Nov-2020 07:33

My point was more with Obraik saying that you can get a second hand ev for that. A bit like saying “Wow, you spent that much on a tractor, you can get a really good concrete mixer for that!” By the way, ex-demo Niros and Konas are not plentiful and sell for almost the same as new ones.

I was mainly lamenting the fact that Ford are only doing the PHEV and not the HEV version of the Escape. I guess that is due to the size of the NZ market. They have avoided direct competition with the RAV4 at the moment, although if the Prime ever arrives that will be moot. The Escape PHEV is only available as 2wd because of the battery placement and the way Ford have chosen to do AWD in the Escape (mechanical driveshaft rather than an extra electric motor). The more manufacturers that can join this market, the better.

I have driven a Outlander PHEV and it was awful (personal opinion). Not really a fan of SUVs in general, but the Escape is a nicer drive. It seems that SUVs are all that’s going to be available soon. Ultimately a Camry Prime i.e. a sedan with the running gear and batteries of a RAV4 Prime (doesn’t exist by the way) preferably without a sunroof, would do me.

But it would need to retail for less than a Model 3 though :-)

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Obraik

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#2597493 4-Nov-2020 10:47

Dingbatt:

My point was more with Obraik saying that you can get a second hand ev for that. A bit like saying “Wow, you spent that much on a tractor, you can get a really good concrete mixer for that!” By the way, ex-demo Niros and Konas are not plentiful and sell for almost the same as new ones.

I don't believe I ever said they were plentiful, but they do exist such as this one here. However, the MG ZS EV can be had new with 0km on it for around $56k currently.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2597504 4-Nov-2020 11:12

Also worth noting that hybrids will increasingly become redundant technology as battery technology improves, which it is doing rapidly. The recent announcement by Tesla will translate into increased battery capacity, faster charging and lower price in the forseeable future which will put added pressure on EV manufacturers to follow their lead.

Cheaper and longer range EVs will see them reach parity with ICE vehicles both in terms of range and price which will be a major tipping point for many buyers and prior to that hybrids will become caught in a no man's land with limited battery range and higher maintenance costs due to the dual componentry. Resale of hybrids will become more and more difficult.

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tripper1000

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#2597528 4-Nov-2020 11:34

jonathan18: ...Speaking as someone also interested in a PHEV as my next car, the reports of relatively fast battery degradation in the Outlander has been enough to put me off this as an option....!

Judging by the number of Outlanders I encounter at free fast chargers it seems like many people use them as EV's - but they're so heavy and their batteries are so small this must give them an absolute hiding so I'm not surprised they get degradation. (Some peoples time must be totally worthless if they're happy to spend 40 minutes waiting to get less than 40km range!).

kingdragonfly

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#2598342 5-Nov-2020 15:39

autotalk.co.nz: EV battery juicing warning

The VIA is concerned about a practice called ‘Juicing’ which is the artificial inflation of an EV’s battery state of health (SOH) by completing multiple DC rapid charges in short succession.

This follows a Stuff report on ‘Juicing’ which outlines GVI Electric general manager Hayden Johnston’s concerns about the practice, adding he’s seeing more ‘Juiced’ secondhand EVs coming from Japan.

The VIA says ‘Juicing’ is a contravention of both the Consumers Guarantees Act and the Fair Trading Act and that any dealers who engage in this practice are doing so to “mislead” the customer.

Juicing temporarily increases the SOH reading produced by a battery health report, therefore making the battery appear better than it actually is, the VIA says.

It suggests any customer who can identify that “Juicing” has been done would have a valid reason to reject the vehicle and file a complaint with the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal.

VIA members are advised not to “Juice” EV batteries.
...

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wellygary

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#2598350 5-Nov-2020 15:54

kingdragonfly: autotalk.co.nz: EV battery juicing warning

VIA members are advised not to “Juice” EV batteries.
...

I advise my 7 year old not to eat too many biscuits.....

The VIA should really be naming and shaming any of its members caught doing this and marketing their membership as a guarantee that any cars sold by its members are not "juiced"

HarmLessSolutions

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#2598353 5-Nov-2020 16:00

wellygary:

kingdragonfly: autotalk.co.nz: EV battery juicing warning

VIA members are advised not to “Juice” EV batteries.
...

I advise my 7 year old not to eat too many biscuits.....

The VIA should really be naming and shaming any of its members caught doing this and marketing their membership as a guarantee that any cars sold by its members are not "juiced"

The practice of "juicing" is very similar to those odometer "clocked" imports that became all too common some years back. Not sure how they got on top of that but a similar approach is needed on "juicing"!

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wellygary

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#2598356 5-Nov-2020 16:08

HarmLessSolutions:

The practice of "juicing" is very similar to those odometer "clocked" imports that became all too common some years back. Not sure how they got on top of that but a similar approach is needed on "juicing"!

OD tampering got stamped out by getting the ODO readings for when the car was last registered or de registered in Japan and comparing it to when the vehicles were registered in NZ.

There is not going to be any government backed battery "health" listed on any formal documentation in Japan... It will be a lot harder to weed out ....

Also the companies selling the vehicles in japan may also be juicing them up to get a higher prices from the NZ traders .. so it may not even be the local dealers at fault....

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2598359 5-Nov-2020 16:13

https://www.driven.co.nz/motorsport/watch-how-hayden-paddon-s-leading-the-world-with-ground-breaking-electric-rally-car/

It'll be interesting to see how this performs out on rally stages. I've yet to watch the video embedded in the story myself, but a comment I saw online suggested Paddon was considering a siren of some sort so it can be heard coming.

Scott3

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#2598366 5-Nov-2020 16:28

wellygary:

....

Also the companies selling the vehicles in japan may also be juicing them up to get a higher prices from the NZ traders .. so it may not even be the local dealers at fault....

Also potentially the "juicing" was just the normal occupational pattern of the owners / leasers in japan.

Looking though leafspy reports on trademe leaf's, it is not unusual to see leaf's with relatively few "slow" AC charges, and a very high number of DC fast charges (relative to mileage). It seems that there are many owners in japan that rarely slow charge, and tend to fist charge quite frequently.

In this light, it is just an issue with the OBDII based analysis tools (most commonly leaf spy) misreporting the true health. One pulling the pack from the car, and running charge / discharge analysis will be able to see the true health.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2598376 5-Nov-2020 17:13

WyleECoyoteNZ: https://www.driven.co.nz/motorsport/watch-how-hayden-paddon-s-leading-the-world-with-ground-breaking-electric-rally-car/

It'll be interesting to see how this performs out on rally stages. I've yet to watch the video embedded in the story myself, but a comment I saw online suggested Paddon was considering a siren of some sort so it can be heard coming.

Interesting video. No mention of 'sound effects' but they are limiting the performance spec's to what will allow them to run against ICE rally vehicles, so (for now) 400kW rather than the possible 800kW doubling up on motors could provide them with.

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frankv

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#2598712 6-Nov-2020 08:27

a comment I saw online suggested Paddon was considering a siren of some sort so it can be heard coming.

Shades of the doodly-do horns that rally cars had back in the 70s.

wellygary

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#2598741 6-Nov-2020 09:24

Scott3:

Looking though leafspy reports on trademe leaf's, it is not unusual to see leaf's with relatively few "slow" AC charges, and a very high number of DC fast charges (relative to mileage). It seems that there are many owners in japan that rarely slow charge, and tend to fist charge quite frequently.

That's due to most car owners in japan not having attached private garaging (Especially in the cities) ... and thus don't have access to a slow charging option...

Their car may be in an apartment basement, a stacker or parked in a leased parking space in a vacant lot down the street.

Scott3

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#2598745 6-Nov-2020 09:38

wellygary:

That's due to most car owners in japan not having attached private garaging (Especially in the cities) ... and thus don't have access to a slow charging option...

Their car may be in an apartment basement, a stacker or parked in a leased parking space in a vacant lot down the street.

For come cars the number of Quick Charges far higher than what one would expect, even considering near exclusive use of fast chargers.

For example the below car ODO 13,536km, has been fast charged 824 times, an average range gain of 16.4km/charge, in a car that had 130km range when new, and about 90km of range now.

Personally I wouldn't own an electric car if I couldn't charge it at my normal parking space.

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