Utes are planet killers

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#2731359 20-Jun-2021 10:46

sbiddle:

[ What happens if people just stop buying new vehicles and the scheme then has a funding shortfall?

In the short term plenty will buy ICE cars, as they are right now. Petrol may well reduce in price as oil companies try to get sales. When EV's eventually go big, and that's a long way off, the subsidy will end one would assume. The key driver is EV prices approaching ICE prices, then the subsidy isn't needed, price will get sales.

frankv

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#2731365 20-Jun-2021 11:07

mattwnz:

Trucks produce far more pollution than utes, as do some of these SUVs. We used to have a ute and it didn't use any more fuel than an SUV. Infact it was cheaper to run.

Talk about faint praise... they also turn tighter than an oil tanker and have more power than a 2CV. But why would anyone want an SUV?

Ge0rge

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#2731366 20-Jun-2021 11:08

Reading through the article, I feel as if there is a decent chunk of either mis-information, scare-mongering or lazy reporting going on, and some of the points made in it don't really add up. I'm not going to pick apart the entire article, but a couple stand out.

"Utes were proliferating on NZ roads and so was the damage they cause" but then goes on to say that "..A lot of the ute capacity is not used...". I agree that's inefficient, but I don't understand what damage they are causing - if we were to magically remove all of the utes, the people driving them would be driving something else - still four wheels on the road...

"Some utes in NZ weighed two and a half tonnes" - so what? A Tesla 3 weighs 2,250kg, a Model X can apparently weigh between 2,300kg and 2,509kg - "and Americans were driving utes weighing three and a half tonnes that would no doubt be hitting NZ shores, he said" - What a load of bollocks. Yes, the Americans like to drive light trucks that are a lot heavier than our version of a light truck - but they aren't going to be "hitting our shores" any time soon - or at least not in any numbers of significance. The Ford "F" series has been the most popular ute in the US for nearly 45 years now - don't you think they would be here in big numbers already if they were going to be? Ford don't make the F series in RHD - you want one? You buy it LHD and pay a princely sum to have it converted.

There is also a statement in there saying that "hybrid and electric utes...will still take up more lane space" When I think of lane space, I think of width - that's the part that will have a direct effect on the safety of those using bikes, and driving in an inner-city setting. A 2020 Ford Ranger D/C is 1,977mm wide - a Model X is 1,999 wide and the Model S bigger again at 2,189. A Kona is 1800mm wide, an Ioniq is 1820mm and a Leaf is 1,788mm - we're talking less that most peoples' handspan here.

Yes, I've picked EVs that illustrate my point - but it also fits the theme of his article - that houses, vehicles, food etc are all getting bigger - by that logic, I don't expect the people driving these utes to suddenly decide that a BMW I3 is the car for them. (at 1,755mm wide by the way...)

For disclosure, I own a double cab ute. It's narrower than any Telsa offering, has a similar curb weight (so apparently we're doing the same amount of damage to the road) but is slightly longer - around 500mm in fact. If you're reading this on a desktop, that's about the same as the width of your screen. Not exactly a B-train...

The SUV that it replaced was older, heavier, wider, a little shorter and used more fuel to get about the place - 14-16L/100km vs 10.7(claimed) and 11.5-12 actual. It's also a manual vs the old automatic, so the servicing costs are significantly reduced.

The new ute really only gets driven in the weekends. I take public transport to work (despite it taking significantly longer - 35 mins to drive vs 1hr 30 via PT) as it costs me less, and I don't see the point in putting extra miles on my ute for no good reason - I expect that this vehicle will outlast me and that I won't replace it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "dinosaur fuel or die" person. My wife has a Swift which we are looking to replace next year with most likely a hybrid but an EV is on the cards if the funds to get the range that she needs allow it. However there is nothing on the market currently that will replace the ute I have, and I challenge any of you to get "significant other" acceptance for putting dead animals or wet dogs in the back of your EV - it was my wife who wanted me to replace my SUV with the ute because she was unable to easily transport all her gardening stuff to and from town with the SUV.

@sbiddle - As for the recently announced feebate scheme, it was announced by government (and mentioned in the thread relating to it) that if the pot of money dried up, then the payouts to those buying EV's would simply cease until there was money in it again (read more utes were registered) - you're absolutely right that the scheme needs people to keep bringing non-efficient vehicles into the country to subsidise those who want to buy an EV.

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#2731377 20-Jun-2021 11:44

Ge0rge:

Reading through the article, I feel as if there is a decent chunk of either mis-information, scare-mongering or lazy reporting going on, and some of the points made in it don't really add up.

…

Finally, a sensible post with actual facts.

Dingbatt

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#2731380 20-Jun-2021 11:51

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. It has endured asteroid strikes, volcanic eruptions, massive seismic events, multiple ice ages and biological extinction events. It has been far colder and hotter than it is now, and yet it supports life as we know it and is far from ‘dead’.

Therefore the thread title is totally inappropriate but sadly all too familiar. No wonder young children are scared when such hyperbole is everywhere.

The article referenced in the OP is about the affect heavy vehicles have on humans and the environment. And no doubting there is an effect. There are anecdotal references to ‘bullbars’, how many vehicles do you actually see today with bullbars? The academic referenced has 5 bikes and a ‘light’ Mazda 3 car. Why does he have 5 bikes? Surely you can only ride one at a time? So think of the waste of resources to make 4 extra bikes and get them to NZ. And in many places in the world a Mazda 3 is considered a family sized vehicle. Does he transport a family round in his, or could he get away with something much smaller? And why is he driving an ICE vehicle at all? It’s no surprise his funding for research (and therefore his livelihood) has to be linked to climate change (no link, no funding). But once again, not related to the death of a planet, but more to do with the effect on the human environment.

As a disclaimer I do not own, or have I ever owned, a utility/light truck. Having been a hybrid owner for 5 years I will (probably) never buy another vehicle that doesn’t have some sort of electrification. But pointing out that $140000 Tesla Model X can tow a light caravan is pie-in-the-sky stuff for people who think carefully about whether they can afford $20000 to update their vehicle. As for farmers throwing bales in the back of a Cybertruk, you are dreaming if you think they will be available in NZ for less than $80000.

Edit: I see Ge0rge’s post while I was composing contains an even more in depth précis of the linked article. I endorse much of what he has posted. But such is the state of journalism these days. Understandable I guess when you realise most journalists were ‘challenged’ by STEM subjects at school and not bright enough to become lawyers…

Oh and by the way, “Utes” are a Native American tribal group in Colorado, so your title could be seen as racist or a the very least, culturally inappropriate.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

sbiddle

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#2731447 20-Jun-2021 13:23

Ge0rge:

Reading through the article, I feel as if there is a decent chunk of either mis-information, scare-mongering or lazy reporting going on, and some of the points made in it don't really add up. I'm not going to pick apart the entire article, but a couple stand out.

Even the first sentence is misleading. This isn't a tax on utes, it's a tax on CO2 emissions. Every new ICE vehicle is going to be subject to being rated, and NZ's band zero is between 146 g/km and 192 g/km with a charge above that and a rebate below that. There are plenty of ICE cars that are going to be subject to being taxed.

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#2731450 20-Jun-2021 13:38

Love my Ranger. I can throw literally anything in back and it doesn't smell out or rattle around in the cab. Put a trailer on and it doesn't even notice its there. I drive regularly 400km from Chch - Marlborough its about $70 less per trip incl road user charges than a petrol vehicle. 2 boxes of beer for when I get there is not bad.

I had a big wagon(Mondeo) before it and its not nearly as practical for daily use. It drank fuel like nothing I've ever driven 13-14L/100 compared to 8-9/100 on the Ute. For me and my use case its a no brainer to have the double cab ute as my daily.

I reckon the person that wrote this Article has never daily driven a ute and is going for the social media likes.

Obraik

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#2731454 20-Jun-2021 13:58

Batman:
farmers need utes for their dairy farm because we want steak milk and cheese

I grew up on a dairy farm in the 90s/early 2000s. My dad never had a ute and neither did my friends dads who were also dairy farmers. It seems that utes are the vehicles of farmers is a recent thing.

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Dingbatt

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#2731455 20-Jun-2021 14:02

Obraik:
Batman:

farmers need utes for their dairy farm because we want steak milk and cheese

I grew up on a dairy farm in the 90s/early 2000s. My dad never had a ute and neither did my friends dads who were also dairy farmers. It seems that utes are the vehicles of farmers is a recent thing.

And yet my cousin that now owns the family dairy farm I grew up on has owned a utility (Holden) since the late 80s. He now has two, three of you count his son’s one as well. So go figure.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

surfisup1000

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#2731527 20-Jun-2021 15:24

shrub:

Love my Ranger.

Linux:

Most not all Ford Ranger drivers are the biggest pricks on the road!

I guess you and Linux are not friends .

mattwnz

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#2731528 20-Jun-2021 15:29

frankv:

mattwnz:

Trucks produce far more pollution than utes, as do some of these SUVs. We used to have a ute and it didn't use any more fuel than an SUV. Infact it was cheaper to run.

Talk about faint praise... they also turn tighter than an oil tanker and have more power than a 2CV. But why would anyone want an SUV?

Because SUVs are the top selling vehicle in the US and most other countries. They drive higher than cars, and people feel safer in them with better road visibility. They can also be easier for elderly to drive and get in and out of. Normal cars are too low. Some elderly people hate getting into the mazda 3 because they find it far too low to get in and out of easily, and I thought it was quite a normal car height.

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#2731529 20-Jun-2021 15:33

Aren't those Ford SUVs the ones that kept rolling over and catching on fire?

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raytaylor

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#2731535 20-Jun-2021 16:47

Probably important to remember why the ute was invented:

Ford Australia was the first company to produce an Australian Coupe ute, which was released in 1934. This was the result of a 1932 letter from the unnamed wife of a farmer in Australia asking for "a vehicle to go to church in on a Sunday and which can carry our pigs to market on Mondays".

I drive a 2020 Hilux.
Unlike a Ranger driver, I am not just using it to drop the kids off at school. I use my hilux for work. It is my office and my workshop.
Unfortunately whats not understood is that a range of 400km is required while towing a 1.2t trailer and side-by-side without charging (because there are none on rural roads away from state highways).

And that range is on NZ roads, with hills, not just flat roads.
If something that worked were on the market, i'd be buying it.

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#2731613 20-Jun-2021 18:00

You need to be clear what you are including under the definition of 'SUV'. Traditionally an SUV was a large vehicle with a ladder frame chassis, but these days vehicle manufacturers apply the term to vehicles that are essentially just cars with a bit of extra ground clearance and interior space.

I can't understand why anyone would be bothered by the fact that I chose a CX-5 over a Mazda 3.

sidders80

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#2731634 20-Jun-2021 19:10

Ranger 2.0 Bi Turbo Engine emissions g/km - 177

Mazda CX9 2.5 ltr Turbo Engine emissions g/km - 206

With the above I assume not all UTES are going to be taxed as per the new guidelines. Also having a UTE doesn't always mean they are as bad as they are made out to be.

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