Nissan LEAF - General

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1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1781747 13-May-2017 19:28

Also, battery modules can be swapped to older, more degraded ones keeping old computer (LBC) which will show history for different cell set. As a buyer you have no way to check that.

Same applicable for any battery operated EV or PHEV or Hybrid. Dodgy battery swaps in Prius/Camry Hybrid are now common. That is one of the reasons I have created that small program which works with 2D scanner to identify dodgy Prius/Camry/Lexus battery swaps.

For Nissan Leaf - the best way is to have that car you want to buy to be driven from full charge to complete battery drain recording metrics (e.g. by Leafspy or Consult3+) before start and at finish. Even if there was battery swap - that way you can at least capture performance of the battery here and now. Must have procedure for any Jap imported battery operated car IMO.

pogo

84 posts

Master Geek

#1781752 13-May-2017 19:42

Let's think about numbers: If EVs had 6.2c/km RUC then to keep them equally financially attractive vs ICE cars they would have to also charge an extra 6.2c/km on petrol/diesel. Like that's going to happen!!!

Conversely, pushing the RUC of EVs onto ICE car owners would only be a tiny increase in their cost per km (because there aren't many EVs on the road yet), yet the financial incentive to own an EV would remain intact.

RUC will kill EVs (unless perhaps if EVs become as convenient as ICE cars - a fair few years away still).

I don't mind a carbon tax, but I doubt it will be very high.

Batman

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#1781756 13-May-2017 19:50

Linuxluver:

pogo: I would advocate for pushing the RUC for EVs onto petrol and diesel users. Simple and effective: ICE cars get (marginally) more expensive while EVs remain cheap. The incentive to buy an EV will increase over time.

RUC will kill EVs... It costs about 1.5c/km to run my Leaf, but RUCs are 6.2c/km?... that would more than quadruple the cost! People will do their numbers and find its not worth it to buy an EV.

I think everyone should pay RUC, but there should be a carbon tax on the burning of fossil fuels.

As it stands, there is no "cost" to burning fossil fuels vs using forms of energy that don't result in 2.3kg of CO2 per litre burned of petrol (average-sized petrol car).

If we are talking about vehicles paying their fair share....then why is it petrol and diesel vehicles can emit CO2 and other pollutants / poisons for "free"?

If you want a CO2 tax, I think you have to tax the farmers first. Anyone wants to go and speak to the farmers?

gzt

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#1781774 13-May-2017 21:06

Gotta start somewhere. CO2 reduction for personal transport and mass transit is more or less a reality. CO2 reduction for something like dairy farming requires more research. Dealing with CO2 on an industry/sector basis might be sensible.

shk292

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#1781851 14-May-2017 10:17

If we want to reduce CO2, then taxing this rather than focussing on road duty seems the sensible way to do it. That way you catch jet-skis, speedway, patio heaters, recreational aviation etc etc.

Probably a quick way for a government to ensure they are voted out though, unless more voters become more convinced that this is a pressing problem worth changing lifestyle for. While the most expensive real estate in my town is that right next to the sea, I think a carbon tax is going to be a hard sell.

pogo

84 posts

Master Geek

#1781855 14-May-2017 10:43

The problem with a carbon tax is that consumers need a financially viable alternative to switch to. The RUC for EVs will reduce the financial incentive such that people will just have to grit their teeth and pay the carbon tax for their ICE car.

I.e. for a carbon tax to be effective RUCs for EVs must be suspended, at least until EVs are as affordable and convenient as an ICE car.

Batman

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#1781859 14-May-2017 10:55

What is the co2 cost of air travel, overseas shipping of private goods and overseas shipping of food and other items of daily living - remember we don't make anything here. Harvest, ship to China, process, ship back here, make stuff, ship overseas, sell. Surely that is more than my motorcar that i drive once a week?

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shk292

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#1781874 14-May-2017 11:50

joker97: What is the co2 cost of air travel, overseas shipping of private goods and overseas shipping of food and other items of daily living - remember we don't make anything here. Harvest, ship to China, process, ship back here, make stuff, ship overseas, sell. Surely that is more than my motorcar that i drive once a week?

Exactly - hence why taxpayers, or people who can't afford EVs, subsidising a relatively few people to drive around in EVs is probably not a good solution either economically or environmentally. You'd probably get better ROI insulating more houses or giving some grants to get the 1% most polluting vehicles off the road, or implementing compulsory emission testing at WOFs

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1781876 14-May-2017 11:53

joker97: What is the co2 cost of air travel, overseas shipping of private goods and overseas shipping of food and other items of daily living - remember we don't make anything here. .....

I am not the only one who is exporting - i.e. make here and send overseas. What's more I am recycling local stuff, sometimes up to 95% which otherwise would go into our land fields. Which feels good.... while dealers are importing Gen 1 Leafs, which would become 1500 kg of locally dumped waste in less than 5-10 years... If you want EV - buy at least GEN2 Leaf or those EVs which are supported by the dealers - i.e. battery availability in the future - so that those will not become waste.

Correction- some would argue that dumped car is going to the scrap yard and sold for parts. That is true but Li batteries from those will not be accepted at the scrap yard and either will go to the DIY-ers for their solar or golf cart projects.

Eventually there will be quite a pile of degraded Li batteries - Leaf's is ~240kg (and other traction batteries - first Prius is NiMH ~85kg) which need to be taken care off.

Major car dealers have joined an agreement (there is a paper online) of taking care of traction battery waste. I've tried to trace any publicly available info whereabouts those are going (e.g. Toyota sends NiMH packs to Palmerston) without any information being available about where those are end up....

EPA issues paperwork for importers/exporter of the batteries and I have not seen any car dealers listed there yet - not for export of used ones, not for import of new ones.

afe66

3181 posts

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#1781897 14-May-2017 12:39

Can we start a new thread if we are going to talk about subsidies, co2 taxes?

This thread is supposed to be about one particular model of electric car.

A.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#1781927 14-May-2017 14:03

afe66: Can we start a new thread if we are going to talk about subsidies, co2 taxes?

This thread is supposed to be about one particular model of electric car.

A.

Try the general EV news thread,

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=197896&page_no=38

f it gets out of hand you can always branch a new thread

Linuxluver

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#1782179 15-May-2017 07:51

joker97:

If you want a CO2 tax, I think you have to tax the farmers first. Anyone wants to go and speak to the farmers?

The farmers are the government right now.....which is why so little is being done and the rivers and lakes are degrading rapidly.

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Linuxluver

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#1782181 15-May-2017 07:53

afe66: Can we start a new thread if we are going to talk about subsidies, co2 taxes?

This thread is supposed to be about one particular model of electric car.

A.

Things come up....and recede. :-)

We'll be back on track shortly.

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Linuxluver

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#1782184 15-May-2017 08:01

I'm in New Plymouth today.

I drove my 30kWh LEAF down from Auckland yesterday.

It was more or less a normal car drive down but for the lack of a fast charger between Te Awamutu and New Plymouth. To close that energy gap I stopped at the Seaview Holiday Camp in Awakino and charged up until I got to 75%....and then drove to New Plymouth (84km to the fast charger) at the speed limit. No worries.

On the 124km leg from Te Awamutu I tended to drive about 90kph....as I know there a big hills in there (and lots of good, long regen opportunities) and didn't want to burn the road up without knowing how it would go overall. I also wanted to reduce my charging time at the holiday camp by conserving power without being a road pest.

In the end, it was easy. Just go easy on the 124km leg and charge for 2.5 hours (16amp / blue commando) at the holiday camp....and New Plymouth is no problem.

Seaview Holiday camp is in a beautiful, sheltered spot. It was no hardship spending a calm, sunny afternoon by the black sand beach with full access to all the facilities for $18. I wasn't in a hurry.

I'm really enjoying how my LEAF 'allows' me to stop in all these places I would not normally stop.......and I usually end up regretting I was always "in a hurry"....and missed so many opportunities to savour a lot of what is best about life in NZ.

My 36th year in NZ and this is my first visit to New Plymouth. It's a nice city!

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afe66

3181 posts

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#1782335 15-May-2017 10:27

I agree about visiting places that before were just driven through.

I had lovely half an hour sitting on the beach at hampden while my leaf charged up.

Never stopped there before with ice.

I'm contemplating a Dunedin to Chch trip in November. Asburton charger should be up by then

With a child in the car we often stop every hour anyway.

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