EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

1 | ... | 651 | 652 | 653 | 654 | 655 | 656 | 657 | 658 | 659 | 660 | 661 | ... | 728

2102 posts

Uber Geek

#3205913 13-Mar-2024 08:59

BlargHonk:

That doesn't pass the sniff test. What is the main summary of the argument that the Ranger has lower CO2 emissions?

I watched it ages ago, and it definitely does not. Its based on how the power is made (EV) compared how the fuel is burned (ICE). No calculations on how the fuel is made and shipped - which is the equivalent of how the power is made in the fuel world. Also no discussion on air quality, and the effect in cities. Obviously we burn less coal to make our electricity so its even better for us.

Its like most things you can make statistics look however you like, but the reality is he has over simplified for the narrative he is supplying.

HarmLessSolutions

975 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3205916 13-Mar-2024 09:13

BlargHonk:

Technofreak:

Interesting comparison wrt CO2 emissions between some EV's and the Ford Ranger.

Spoiler; In Australia the Ranger has lower emissions.

https://youtu.be/XT9_IYMq8DQ?si=kskwBLuXKIF37kNb

That doesn't pass the sniff test. What is the main summary of the argument that the Ranger has lower CO2 emissions?

Any link to John Cardogan videos should be stated as such. Accidental viewing of an Australian boofhead ranting away with smarta*se slang and derogatory name calling and quoting cherry picked information to support his warped opinions is likely to not only cause indigestion but potentially ruin your mental equilibrium for a sustained period.

I'm not likely to watch the video so won't be commenting on it further. Life is too short to bother with half witted purveyors of EV FUD.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

richms

28191 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3205981 13-Mar-2024 11:36

Technofreak:

Are you sure about that when you include RUC's? Some figures I did a while back using figures provided by an EV owner showed there wasn't much in it and petrol might actually be cheaper in some cases. Sure the price fluctuations of fuel and the variation in prices around the country could certainly swing things in favour of an EV in some situations.

Comparable EV to the ICE - cant compare a tesla to an aqua and be surprised that the aqua is cheaper.

Richard rich.ms

wellygary

8328 posts

Uber Geek

#3205985 13-Mar-2024 11:53

BlargHonk:

That doesn't pass the sniff test. What is the main summary of the argument that the Ranger has lower CO2 emissions?

Basically its the embedded carbon cost of the batteries,

The problem is that there is a large variation is the Co2 Production component based on where the materials are refined and processed, The studies I have seen have a huge range of 2.4 -16 tonnes of C02 in an 80kwh battery,

He picks 7 tonnes, and then lumps on the Grid component of Oz's Coal based power network...

Mehrts

1063 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3205986 13-Mar-2024 11:56

Tesla Superchargers coming to Nelson and Dunedin Q3 this year.

They're really filling in the gaps with decent charging infrastructure.

The West Coast of the South Island still needs some attention though. It's pretty barren at the moment.

deepred

496 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3206024 13-Mar-2024 15:50

richms:

Technofreak:

Are you sure about that when you include RUC's? Some figures I did a while back using figures provided by an EV owner showed there wasn't much in it and petrol might actually be cheaper in some cases. Sure the price fluctuations of fuel and the variation in prices around the country could certainly swing things in favour of an EV in some situations.

Comparable EV to the ICE - cant compare a tesla to an aqua and be surprised that the aqua is cheaper.

Furthermore, isn't electricity generation in Oz a lot less from renewables than in NZ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

gzt

17149 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3206052 13-Mar-2024 17:55

@Zeon: Hey guys, how much have EV prices come down and can dealers be negotiated with to clear stock of these (anyone bought recently)? I'm thinking to get one (yes crazy time I know) but would really want to see a drop in price - and apaprently the market is flooded with them so seems a good time to negotiate....

I was recently offered a Kona Elite 64kwh by Hyundai for $56k. No negotiating at all. Hyundai chat offers an "ex-demo" option if you talk to it. I'm guessing they are creating 'demo' vehicles for this purpose daily ; ). (Moved from RUC thread)

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Jase2985

13463 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3206056 13-Mar-2024 18:01

@Technofreak:

Interesting comparison wrt CO2 emissions between some EV's and the Ford Ranger.

Spoiler; In Australia the Ranger has lower emissions.

https://youtu.be/XT9_IYMq8DQ?si=kskwBLuXKIF37kNb

Spoiler, he made a mistake in the maths, its 100g more per Km

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djuy1KFOTLY

See his correction video above.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3206133 13-Mar-2024 19:15

Jase2985:

@Technofreak:

Interesting comparison wrt CO2 emissions between some EV's and the Ford Ranger.

Spoiler; In Australia the Ranger has lower emissions.

https://youtu.be/XT9_IYMq8DQ?si=kskwBLuXKIF37kNb

Spoiler, he made a mistake in the maths, its 100g more per Km

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djuy1KFOTLY

See his correction video above.

Funny you should mention that. I had just been checking his figures and noted that error. At least he fesses up.

Using the updated CO2 figures for electricity generation and including for the "well to tank" CO2 emissions for fossil fuels (which by the way are most likely not counted in the fossil fuel component of the CO2 figures of electricity generation) the EV in his comparison has to travel at least 44,000 km before it level pegs with the Ranger Wild Track.

He makes the point that there a very good case for buying an ICE and spending the balance you would have spent on the EV to install a solar panel set up and sell or use the power you generate from that. He contends that has a better impact on the environment.

New Zealand along with the likes of Norway is an outlier with respect to CO2 emissions from electricity generation.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3206137 13-Mar-2024 19:18

richms:

Technofreak:

Are you sure about that when you include RUC's? Some figures I did a while back using figures provided by an EV owner showed there wasn't much in it and petrol might actually be cheaper in some cases. Sure the price fluctuations of fuel and the variation in prices around the country could certainly swing things in favour of an EV in some situations.

Comparable EV to the ICE - cant compare a tesla to an aqua and be surprised that the aqua is cheaper.

I used figures for my V6 and figures quoted by an EV owner on Geekzone. Both cars were 5 seat sedans and comparable in size.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

mkissin

391 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#3206156 13-Mar-2024 19:54

Since we’re re-hashing ancient arguments, the thing is that with EVs, as the grid decarbonises (which it will) the entire fleet improves. Your ranger will always just be a ranger, with ever-increasing fuel prices.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3206192 13-Mar-2024 23:17

mkissin: Since we’re re-hashing ancient arguments, the thing is that with EVs, as the grid decarbonises (which it will) the entire fleet improves. Your ranger will always just be a ranger, with ever-increasing fuel prices.

True the Ranger will be a Ranger, however don't for one moment think that electricity prices won't rise at similar rates to fuel prices. They're both forms of energy with one form often used to make the other. While not joined at the hip, their costs are tied together to a large extent.

Supply and demand will drive prices. If one gets to cheap relative to the other then the demand for it will increase and so the see-saw in prices continues.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#3206203 14-Mar-2024 06:37

Technofreak:

True the Ranger will be a Ranger, however don't for one moment think that electricity prices won't rise at similar rates to fuel prices. They're both forms of energy with one form often used to make the other. While not joined at the hip, their costs are tied together to a large extent.

Supply and demand will drive prices. If one gets to cheap relative to the other then the demand for it will increase and so the see-saw in prices continues.

While that is true, I have a lot more power to mitigate my power usage than my fuel usage. Unless there's a petrol station that offers free fuel on weekends, which is what I use to charge my EVs.

The real issue is that there's no comparable EV product to stack up against the Ranger... yet. Not much point in a comparison until that capability exists.

Whether the people who buy Rangers all actually need a Ranger is another thing, but given buying a ute in 2024 no longer means a trade-off between a spartan interior and towing power I can see why they make that choice.

BlargHonk

147 posts

Master Geek

#3206213 14-Mar-2024 07:50

Technofreak:

mkissin: Since we’re re-hashing ancient arguments, the thing is that with EVs, as the grid decarbonises (which it will) the entire fleet improves. Your ranger will always just be a ranger, with ever-increasing fuel prices.

True the Ranger will be a Ranger, however don't for one moment think that electricity prices won't rise at similar rates to fuel prices. They're both forms of energy with one form often used to make the other. While not joined at the hip, their costs are tied together to a large extent.

Supply and demand will drive prices. If one gets to cheap relative to the other then the demand for it will increase and so the see-saw in prices continues.

I am not sure how true it is that they will rise at similar rates (at least in the future). One is driven pretty much 100% by overseas forces and will get less abundant over time, while the other one we make pretty much fully from NZ sources. It would be interesting to see the cost of 91 vs the cost of electricity for the last 50yrs graphed on top of each other though.

The other thing is that you can install solar (and batteries) to your house to help charge your vehicle. It is pretty hard to stick a refinery on your roof...

SaltyNZ

8233 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3206218 14-Mar-2024 08:13

GV27:

The real issue is that there's no comparable EV product to stack up against the Ranger... yet. Not much point in a comparison until that capability exists.

Well, there are, but not much chance of them arriving in NZ any time soon now the clean car scheme has ended.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1 | ... | 651 | 652 | 653 | 654 | 655 | 656 | 657 | 658 | 659 | 660 | 661 | ... | 728