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Scott3

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#281091 28-Jan-2021 22:48
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Announced today. Sadly no press release on the beehive website, and conflicting reports from various media. Below is my understanding.

 

Fleet average emissions by 2025:

 

  • Cars & SUV: 102g co2/km
  • Utes & Vans: 132g co2/km

(election policy was 105g co2/km average regardless of vehicle type)

 

Fines for breaching the above (new imports):

 

  • 2023 & 2024: $50 / car / gram average over the limit
  • 2025: $75 / car / gram average over the limit

Used imports:

 

  • 2023 & 2024: $25 / car / gram average over the limit
  • 2025: $37.5 / car / gram average over the limit

Unclear if 2025 average applies in 2023 & 2024, but previous proposal's had a roughly linear change between todays level (roughly 174g) and the 105g target in 2025.

 

 

 

Exemptions for things like cars over 40 year's old, tractors, military vehicles, Scratch built vehicles, LVV certified vehicles etc.

 

 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/clean-car-crackdown-govt-sets-new-standard-for-vehicle-imports/3NCT65D3QAO7JWYEHFYSVNSKRU/

 

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/government-clean-car-standard-for-new-zealand-what-exactly-does-a-105g-model-look-like/

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300216211/government-introducing-car-import-rules-aimed-at-lowering-emissions-and-fuel-costs-considering-incentive-scheme-for-evs

 

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2101/S00178/mta-response-to-governments-clean-car-announcement.htm

 

https://autotalk.co.nz/news/how-will-the-clean-car-importation-standard-work?

 

https://autotalk.co.nz/news/toyota-welcomes-emissions-policy-confirms-first-ev

 

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2021-01/Clean%20Car%20Import%20Standard%20Explainer_0.pdf

 

 

 

In terms of analysis, the 2021 fleet average limit for the UK is 95g C02, so even in 2025 we will be behind where they are now. So this policy is fairly week compared to much of the OECD.

 

As a counterpoint it represents a massive drop in the emissions (cira 40%) from what we currently allow into our fleet, so, if met it will see a massive change in our mix of vehicles. Think:

 

  • Decrease average size
  • More efficient power-train's becoming more common (hybrid, downsized engines etc)
  • Much more plug in vehicles.

Generally I support the policy. Given it was dropped on a day where covid-19 cases dominate the news I am picking labor is not expecting it to be widely popular.

 

 

 

Personally I am pretty disappointed labour has departed from the policy it was elected on, to offer split emissions limits for different vehicle types.

 

The last thing we want to be doing is providing incentive's for autosellers to sell more utes. (at a $50/gram fine level, an automaker who doesn't meet their target is $800 better off selling a customer a 2.0 ranger wildtrak than a 2.0 ford everest, despite the Everest being more efficient. (the two vehicles share a engine, platform & have broadly similar towing and off road ability).

 

Also kinda disappointed that the fine's are so low. Likely many autosellers will opt to pay the fines rather than meet the target.

 

Other associated policy like 20 year old vehicle loophole for emissions and crash standards, and the pending (first day of next year) introduction of RUC's on electric cars havn't been touched on.

 

The latter is getting especially urgent. The key issue is that under current policy that an EV will pay triple the road tax of a yaris hybrid in 2022. Really as a country we want to encourage people to buy EV's rather than yaris hybrids, so this will be the wrong way around. 


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davidcole
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  #2643870 28-Jan-2021 23:21
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While evs are good, surely the fact they’re all fairly large - suv style is not.  Not in terms on weight in impact, nor visibility. They seem to be the prevalent style at the moment.





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Scott3

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  #2643876 28-Jan-2021 23:57
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davidcole:

 

While evs are good, surely the fact they’re all fairly large - suv style is not.  Not in terms on weight in impact, nor visibility. They seem to be the prevalent style at the moment.

 

 

Small to medium hatchback is the predominant pure EV style in NZ. Something like 50% of EV's here are nissan leaf's (a medium hatchback). Next most popular is the Tesla model 3 a sedan (a medium to large one by NZ standards). Third most popular pure EV is the Kona Electric. It's an SUV, but a subcompact one, at 4180 mm long (for comparison the current shape leaf is 4,490mm long).

 

The likes of the E-tron, Model X etc sell in fairly low numbers due to their high price.

 

 

 

Numbers of each model registered in NZ are here in a nice format (not mine):

 

https://www.electricheaven.nz/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-6Nov2020.pdf

 

If you want raw data including plug in hybrids it is here:

 

https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/fleet-statistics/sheet/monthly-ev-statistics

 

 

 

All the above said, the SUV body shape actually works quite nicely for EV's. Styling already set up for a high roof line. Can cut into the ground clearance a bit, and put the battery under the floor without having to raise the interior floor too much. Car's like the leaf need a fairly high roof line to accommodate a high back seat, and comfort in the rear is compromised due to the high floor due to the battery underneath the passengers feet.

Also SUV's are on trend. Not a surprise automakers are pushing their R&D $$ that way. 


Scott3

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  #2643877 29-Jan-2021 00:09
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Anybody know if a kia carnival is considered a car or a van?




Lias
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  #2643912 29-Jan-2021 07:57
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Ugh.

 

New Zealand's emissions are ~0.17% of global emissions. Slightly reducing the impact of cars here isn't going to do diddly.

 

 





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


  #2643916 29-Jan-2021 08:07
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Lias:

 

Ugh.

 

New Zealand's emissions are ~0.17% of global emissions. Slightly reducing the impact of cars here isn't going to do diddly.

 

 

 

 

so because of that we should do nothing?


GV27
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  #2643919 29-Jan-2021 08:16
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Jase2985:

 

Lias:

 

Ugh.

 

New Zealand's emissions are ~0.17% of global emissions. Slightly reducing the impact of cars here isn't going to do diddly.

 

 

so because of that we should do nothing?

 

 

102g/km is less than an entry-level Suzuki Swift. We don't have the market here to sway production decisions and RHD production models tend to lag well behind LHD production for US/Euro models. Prices having to rise or vehicles not being supplied here at all are possible outcomes - both could lead to people retaining their existing, possibly crappy vehicles for a longer period of time. Our fleet is already pretty old tbh. 

 

It really depends on what happens with EVs and pricing over the next few years, and how many can be sold to offset ICE vehicles, but no one is bringing forward EV models they don't have planned already because New Zealand set an aggressive target. I'm going to reserve judgement until the end of this year. 


Dingbatt
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  #2643935 29-Jan-2021 09:08
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So will we get an influx of “compliance vehicles”? By using fleet averages we will get great vehicles (not) like the Focus EV that these policies caused when California introduced them.

 

This will also produce increased numbers of PHEVs, with artificially low emissions numbers, that doesn’t translate to real world use. The classic was watching a YT video for the RAV4 Prime where the reviewer was breathlessly quoting “184 miles per gallon!”. I would challenge him to put 1 gallon in that vehicle and set off with a fully charged battery and see how far he gets.

 

In places like the UK, tax incentives drive companies towards PHEVs, which their reps then drive around on petrol for 90% of the time. Thus yielding worse real world emissions because they are lugging 400kg of batteries around in an SUV size and shaped vehicle at motorway speeds.

 

Rather than using a “carrot” (feebate) to alter the NZ fleet mix, it has decided to use a “stick” (prescriptive standards with fines).





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  #2643943 29-Jan-2021 09:21
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May be I missed this, but how can I find out what the emission is of my current vehicle. And is there a single source for other cars available is NZ?


kotuku4
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  #2643951 29-Jan-2021 09:33
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rogercruse:

 

May be I missed this, but how can I find out what the emission is of my current vehicle. And is there a single source for other cars available is NZ?

 

 

 

 

Rightcar.govt.nz





:)


kotuku4
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  #2643954 29-Jan-2021 09:38
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Lias:

 

Ugh.

 

New Zealand's emissions are ~0.17% of global emissions. Slightly reducing the impact of cars here isn't going to do diddly.

 

 

 

 

We all have to take responsibility for what we do.  As a nation if we don't, then we will suffer loss of trade and tourism, etc.





:)


afe66
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  #2643957 29-Jan-2021 09:49
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How about particulate testing.... the crap that comes out of old diesels or nz "new" cars can be shocking.

I live on a hill so often drive behind cars uses belching dark smoke..

GV27
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  #2643958 29-Jan-2021 09:53
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afe66: How about particulate testing.... the crap that comes out of old diesels or nz "new" cars can be shocking.

I live on a hill so often drive behind cars uses belching dark smoke..

 

We have an old fleet - particulate testing would see massive amounts of cars off the road and mostly affect people who can't afford to swap them for something newer.

 

On its own, it's not really a practical answer. Other countries have operated a cash-for-clunkers rebate that was more generous if your vehicle was older, but I haven't seen that suggested here.  


Lias
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  #2643960 29-Jan-2021 09:56
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Jase2985:

 

so because of that we should do nothing?

 

 

At a governmental level? Yes. If individuals want to feel better about 'doing their part' for climate change they are most welcome to do so, but the government shouldn't be mandating increased costs for everyone over a rounding error of global emissions.

 

 





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


richms
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  #2643963 29-Jan-2021 09:59
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GV27:

 

afe66: How about particulate testing.... the crap that comes out of old diesels or nz "new" cars can be shocking.

I live on a hill so often drive behind cars uses belching dark smoke..

 

We have an old fleet - particulate testing would see massive amounts of cars off the road and mostly affect people who can't afford to swap them for something newer.

 

On its own, it's not really a practical answer. Other countries have operated a cash-for-clunkers rebate that was more generous if your vehicle was older, but I haven't seen that suggested here.  

 

 

Then they cant afford to operate a car. We shouldnt be providing welfare by forcing people to breath soot because someone is too poor to properly maintain their GDI piece of crap.

 

just because the fleet is old is not a reason to replace cars. People not maintaining them or continuing to use them when worn out is the problem. Just taking a car off the road because of age is foolish, as even a new one which has been overheated, not had oil changes and been flogged will be blasting smoke out. Even worse on ones with diesal filters that people just reflash to bypass the need for fluid.





Richard rich.ms

MikeB4
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  #2643974 29-Jan-2021 10:18
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Lias:

Ugh.


New Zealand's emissions are ~0.17% of global emissions. Slightly reducing the impact of cars here isn't going to do diddly.


 



That is a very silly notion and an extension of the NIMBY attitude.

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