Can an EV replace a Subaru Outback?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Can an EV replace a Subaru Outback?

dafman

3919 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#288327 21-Jun-2021 12:41

I'm on my second Subaru Outback, intend to get another Outback to replace current one (yes, I like them that much!) but with the recent EV rebate announcement, it's probably a good idea to think about whether an EV could become my next car (esp. given the Outback cost will be going up as a consequence of the scheme).

I haven't actively looked at the EV market, so looking for any thoughts.

A new Outback is $55k, so using that as a base, are there any EV options that are priced similarly (after rebate) that could deliver similar experience to Outback?

What I'm looking for:

- I don't want a small car. medium size is important for comfort with longer road trips.

- Good luggage/storage options.

- Range, I don't want to have to stop regularly on longer trips for recharge. Wellington to Tauranga (500km) is a regular trip I make, how often would I need to recharge? And how long would it take?

I'm picking Tesla is the only real practical option, but I'm not keen on one as:

- historically too expensive. What is the least expensive Tesla be after rebate?

- Poor quality history, I've seen some horrific YouTubes from Tesla owners (Paint, panel alignment, leaks). Still an issue?

- I'd prefer not to give money to anything connected to Elon Musk. And trust in a product is important, I recently read that Tesla's interior camera was secretly filming drivers despite Tesla saying it wasn't happening.

That said, I'm not totally ruling out Tesla. Also, as not many in country, are replacement parts a problem/expensive. And if you buy online, what is the after purchase service like if you have issues during warranty period?

Or is there a medium size non Tesla option?

1 | 2 | 3

1141 posts

Uber Geek

#2732021 21-Jun-2021 12:55

Not a lot of EV Wagons.
The closest thing to fit your requirements and budget will be something like https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/mg/other/listing/2974851574?bof=rGT0Tqe0

An imported 2020 MG 5 MG-5 Excite

Batman

Mad Scientist
29717 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2732036 21-Jun-2021 13:18

I'm in the same boat. I have a 4WD subaru station wagon ... i love it to bits. it goes up the ski fields in balding summer tyres without the traction control light coming on even once when my mates' "AWD" brand new SUVs (Honda, Toyota) with new chunky tyres are sliding around and they have to stop for chains.

so far i have found nothing compares

wellygary

8260 posts

Uber Geek

#2732050 21-Jun-2021 13:28

djtOtago:

Not a lot of EV Wagons.
The closest thing to fit your requirements and budget will be something like https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/mg/other/listing/2974851574?bof=rGT0Tqe0

An imported 2020 MG 5 MG-5 Excite

Pretty sure the MG-5 is 2WD?.... you have to move beyond the 80K cap to find any decent 4WD EV, and most of the time you end up in the SUV category

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2732056 21-Jun-2021 13:41

This year at that budget? No.

The best ranged wagon-like vehicle with substantial range will be the Tesla Model Y but that's not likely to arrive before the end of the year and is unlikely to be under $80k. It's AWD, large capacity, has around 500km of range and has factory towing hardware. You'd probably need to do one stop on the way but it would be like 10-15mins tops.

I own a Tesla (Model 3) so I'm sure my answers are going to be seen as biased, but a lot of the negatives you see Tesla in the news for is overblown and they often have an agenda (shorting their stock, normally). There has historically been quality issues with the paint and panel alignments but, they do fix this if you find an issue. There's very few reports of quality issues with the actual mechanical parts of the vehicles.

The cabin camera has an opt-in feature where it can send cabin footage to Tesla in the case of an accident, however they're also starting to roll out an update in the States where the camera is used by the AI to determine your focus as a counter to people deciding to hop out of the drivers seat and get in the backseat while on Autopilot. This data does not leave the car and is 100% processed on the cars built in computers. This is being used across a few manufactures beyond Tesla (Ford and GM also do something similar with their advanced cruise control systems).

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

tripper1000

1609 posts

Uber Geek

#2732058 21-Jun-2021 13:43

Coming from an EV owner - Short and honest answer is no - not entirely. One day yes, but not yet.

Long answer, it depends on you. I have kept my ICE and use it for what the EV doesn't do well such for me as long trips and towing. I use the EV for what it is great at - round town, and short to medium trips. My ICE owes me nothing and I have the space for it where I live. What I save on fuel $$ in the EV easily covers to the cost of keeping the ICE (rego, insurance etc) so cost isn't a question.

The EV is my daily driver and I find that I drive my ICE only 3 or 4 times a year.

Most vehicles are some kind of compromise. If you want a vehicle that can fulfil ALL you needs, you'd end up driving a flying, amphibious, double cab ute with a 10 tonne towing capacity. Whatever you buy is going to be a compromise and the question is how much and in what area's you want to compromise. Statistically speaking an EV does what 90% of people want to do, 90% of the time. Do you buy a vehicle for the exceptional trips or the everyday trips? Some people find EV's less of a compromise than others.

EV's fit well for families that need 2 cars. The EV makes a great commuter/grocery/soccer/school car, and the ICE can be the holiday/hauling wagon.

dafman

3919 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2732059 21-Jun-2021 13:45

wellygary:

Pretty sure the MG-5 is 2WD?.... you have to move beyond the 80K cap to find any decent 4WD EV, and most of the time you end up in the SUV category

I've just had a good look at the MG-5 online. For the same money as an Outback, you gain electric over petrol, but lose everything else. It's not even half the car the Outback is for specification, features or comfort.

And that's what irks me about the Government's scheme. I have no problem with incentives to go electric, but they are increasing the cost of ICE vehicles at a time there are no comparable EVs to replace.

davidcole

6020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2732060 21-Jun-2021 13:46

There pretty much are no wagons....it's suv style from everyone, or a couple of sedans and suv from tesla.

Though you just say EV....I assume you mean Battery EV (BEV) as with Plugin Hybrid you get a few more options and slightly better pricing.

Also what you don't mention in your 500km Wellington to Tauranga trip, how often, where and for how long do you stop on the way up. I assume after a couple of hundred km for lunch etc....that's a charging point top top up the battery.

Previously known as psycik

Home Assistant: Gigabyte AMD A8 Brix, Home Assistant with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Shelly Humidity and Temperature sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4 4k, ATV4, HDHomeRun Dual
Server Host Plex Server 3x3TB, 4x4TB using MergerFS, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Proxmox Server with 1xW10, 2xUbuntu 22.04 LTS, Backblaze Backups, usenetprime.com fastmail.com Sharesies Trakt.TV Sharesight

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

dafman

3919 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2732062 21-Jun-2021 13:47

tripper1000:

Coming from an EV owner - Short and honest answer is no - not entirely. One day yes, but not yet.

Long answer, it depends on you. I have kept my ICE and use it for what the EV doesn't do well such for me as long trips and towing. I use the EV for what it is great at - round town, and short to medium trips. My ICE owes me nothing and I have the space for it where I live. What I save on fuel $$ in the EV easily covers to the cost of keeping the ICE (rego, insurance etc) so cost isn't a question.

The EV is my daily driver and I find that I drive my ICE only 3 or 4 times a year.

Most vehicles are some kind of compromise. If you want a vehicle that can fulfil ALL you needs, you'd end up driving a flying, amphibious, double cab ute with a 10 tonne towing capacity. Whatever you buy is going to be a compromise and the question is how much and in what area's you want to compromise. Statistically speaking an EV does what 90% of people want to do, 90% of the time. Do you buy a vehicle for the exceptional trips or the everyday trips? Some people find EV's less of a compromise than others.

EV's fit well for families that need 2 cars. The EV makes a great commuter/grocery/soccer/school car, and the ICE can be the holiday/hauling wagon.

Good points. Maybe keep the current Outback and use the money I was going to use on replacement for small used EV. Food for thought.

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2732064 21-Jun-2021 13:51

dafman:

I've just had a good look at the MG-5 online. For the same money as an Outback, you gain electric over petrol, but lose everything else. It's not even half the car the Outback is for specification, features or comfort.

And that's what irks me about the Government's scheme. I have no problem with incentives to go electric, but they are increasing the cost of ICE vehicles at a time there are no comparable EVs to replace.

The new Outbacks are listed as 168g/km CO2, so would fall under the fee threshold.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

tripper1000

1609 posts

Uber Geek

#2732067 21-Jun-2021 14:02

tripper1000: EV's fit well for families that need 2 cars. The EV makes a great commuter/grocery/soccer/school car, and the ICE can be the holiday/hauling wagon.

I met a family that went full EV with both cars and when they went camping or skiing, they spent some of their EV fuel savings on hiring a 4x4 or van. They were still pocketing savings and loved it because they always had the perfect, late model vehicle for the current adventure.

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2732080 21-Jun-2021 14:26

Have you seen the lists in this article on Stuff?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/125446571/quick-charge-what-exactly-does-the-clean-car-discount-mean-for-car-buyers

As others have said, you’ll not find a suitable BEV to replace a medium-sized wagon - looking down that list, none of them that attract the rebate are of a decent size. As for PHEVs, there is a decent-sized (well, large) wagon (Skoda Superb), but that starts in the late $60ks after rebate. The Outlander’s much more affordable, if that’s your kind of thing (personally, I’d prefer something lower and more modern - it’s a fairly old model underneath now).

I’ve gone through a similar thought process to you, as to whether I can find something fully (or even partially) electrified when it comes time to replace my current medium-sized wagon; at this point my conclusion is there’s nothing in either BEV or PHEV form, so may well end up with a hybrid.

There are finally some signs of a decent number of medium-sized BEVs with an ok boot size coming onto the market - eg, the Tesla Model Y, VW ID4, the RAV4-sized Toyota BEV - but I’m guessing these will not only still cost a decent amount (so may not even be eligible for the subsidy) but it’ll also be a while before they’re available in NZ...

Scott3

3945 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2732086 21-Jun-2021 14:40

The Ioniq 5 would likely be the closet pure electric match to an outback on the market (well available for order) at the moment.

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/suv/ioniq-5/overview

Little bit shorter than an outback, but a touch wider. Interior space is meant to be very good (wheelbase is a lot longer than the outback, and the bonnet is short). It's boot space at 535L beats the outbacks 512L (and the Ioniq gets a frount trunk, 57 / 24L on FWD / AWD respectively. Other then the base, the ioniq 5 is more powerful too.

Of course, the outback excels in some areas, like ground clearance 213mm vs 160mm, tow rating 2000kg vs 1600kg (750kg on 58kWh base version), and lower price.

Sadly only the base 58kWh, 2WD with 384 km range is cheap enough to get the rebate.

Personally I think it is a pity, and a policy failing that the the price cap exists. Basically ensures that that few cars just above the price cap will be sold as people settle for lesser features, or opt not to go the electric route. In the near term, pritty much everything pure electric with 4wd / AWD & fairly large & a 450km+ range is going to be over the price cap. (unless some brand games it via selling a software crippled version etc.)

Pity as for a buyer 2WD 72kWh ioniq 5 is the cheapest EV on the market with a decent (1600kg) tow rating, and it would be really nice to have a lot of them sold, and eventually end up on the used market in a few years.

Other options on the market at the moment:

Tesla model 3 (Sports sedan, not really an outback compeditor)
Kona 64kWh (great range, but a FWD subcompact SUV, so not comparable to the outback)
E-niro 64kWh (basically the above, but a tiny bit larger, still far to small to compare to the outback).

(hopefully) soon to arrive options:

Tesla model Y
Ford Mustang electric (4 door performance crossover SUV)
VW I.D.4

Time will tell if any desirable versions of the above come in under the cap.

There are also the PHEV's, with the most common being the outlander PHEV, and the Kia Sorrento being a recent release.

As a above poser said, the current outback with 168g/km CO2 fits comfortably into the zero fee/rebate band under the clean car discount (146g/km and 192g/km), so won't be directly impacted by the clean car discount scheme itself.

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2732090 21-Jun-2021 14:55

Scott3:
The Ioniq 5 would likely be the closet pure electric match to an outback on the market (well available for order) at the moment.

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/suv/ioniq-5/overview

Little bit shorter than an outback, but a touch wider. Interior space is meant to be very good (wheelbase is a lot longer than the outback, and the bonnet is short). It's boot space at 535L beats the outbacks 512L (and the Ioniq gets a frount trunk, 57 / 24L on FWD / AWD respectively. Other then the base, the ioniq 5 is more powerful too.

Has the range of the base 57 kWh Ioniq 5 been announced yet? That’s the biggest limiting factor for me; while it may be eligible for the rebate, that’s immaterial if the range means it’s not fit for (our) purpose. (I think I could cope with the slower acceleration and lower power; I’m certainly looking forward to seeing these in the flesh, and ideally taking one for a spin...)

Batman

Mad Scientist
29717 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2732091 21-Jun-2021 14:57

dafman:

I'm on my second Subaru Outback, intend to get another Outback to replace current one (yes, I like them that much!) but with the recent EV rebate announcement, it's probably a good idea to think about whether an EV could become my next car (esp. given the Outback cost will be going up as a consequence of the scheme).

I haven't actively looked at the EV market, so looking for any thoughts.

A new Outback is $55k, so using that as a base, are there any EV options that are priced similarly (after rebate) that could deliver similar experience to Outback?

What I'm looking for:

- I don't want a small car. medium size is important for comfort with longer road trips.

- Good luggage/storage options.

- Range, I don't want to have to stop regularly on longer trips for recharge. Wellington to Tauranga (500km) is a regular trip I make, how often would I need to recharge? And how long would it take?

I'm picking Tesla is the only real practical option, but I'm not keen on one as:

- historically too expensive. What is the least expensive Tesla be after rebate?

- Poor quality history, I've seen some horrific YouTubes from Tesla owners (Paint, panel alignment, leaks). Still an issue?

- I'd prefer not to give money to anything connected to Elon Musk. And trust in a product is important, I recently read that Tesla's interior camera was secretly filming drivers despite Tesla saying it wasn't happening.

That said, I'm not totally ruling out Tesla. Also, as not many in country, are replacement parts a problem/expensive. And if you buy online, what is the after purchase service like if you have issues during warranty period?

Or is there a medium size non Tesla option?

i went to check out hybrids and EVs and found that the Kia Sorento EX AWD Diesel is the most advanced car you can buy for the lowest price. They even straight up gave me a discount.

- full spare

- heads up display

- automatic braking

- if you go the next model up you get 360 degree cameras

- lane departure correction

- blind spot warning

but i'm not keen

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2732098 21-Jun-2021 15:24

I had missed the announcement earlier in the year that NZ will get the Kia EV6 sometime this year as well; given it’s the equivalent car to the Ioniq 5, and includes models that have the same 57 kWh battery, it’ll be interesting to see if they will pitch the base model under $80k (I’d be surprised if they didn’t).

Has anyone seen any pricing on the EV6?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124708499/kias-latest-allelectric-offering-confirmed-for-nz

1 | 2 | 3