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Jaxson

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  #2746673 19-Jul-2021 15:24
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Batman:

 

 

 

yes. it was a racing incident. this means that both were wrong and both were right.

 

the merc was all over the back of the RB and it was going to eat it alive. Max was moving all over the place to try to defend.

 

 

 

 

That was his hallmark when he first came into F1, was downright dangerous early on, weaving/changing direction during the braking zone.

 

There was a heap of weaving going on up the straights this weekend, with lead drivers trying to prevent chasers getting a slipstream advantage.

 

That's a concern when it spills into the braking zone, where cars are committed to lines for the most part, and only option otherwise is to drift wide.

 

Must be some regulations regarding this competition in the corner/who has right of was given a penalty was issued.
It's a lot clearer in yachting for example though, based on which side you're arriving at. 

 

 

 

Watching it back it was just aggressive from both, and essentially short sighted as others have pointed out.
The pass was on, but only if you'd done enough to scare Max into staying out wide, and vice versa if you're outside then closing the door hard on someone coming up the inside is fraught with risk.
There was no lock up from Lewis though, but he did have his elbows out and wasn't trying to take the tightest possible line around that corner either.
Regardless - You can't score points or win if you don't finish the race.


 

Moving on from fault etc, it's pretty disrespectful to not show concern for another driver after a very heavy blow like that.  
He's pretty smashed up from the crash audio and I didn't see much concern from Lewis, other than a feeling of relief emotions that he'd clawed so many points back this race in front of a home crowd.




Benoire
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  #2746722 19-Jul-2021 15:30
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Did Lewis not ask after Max once in the pits?  Normally he is pretty good like that to find out, it may have been on audio slightly later on.. I think those with F1TV and more interest than me can find the radio logs for the race?


tdgeek
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  #2746749 19-Jul-2021 16:35
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Benoire:

 

Did Lewis not ask after Max once in the pits?  Normally he is pretty good like that to find out, it may have been on audio slightly later on.. I think those with F1TV and more interest than me can find the radio logs for the race?

 

 

He did as he was heading into the red flag pits, Bono responded that he was out of the car.




tdgeek
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  #2746752 19-Jul-2021 16:42
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Just watched the crash. Pity, as the race looked like a massive race fest for a change.

 

My opinion is that Lewis earned his place as he overlapped Max's car. Max didn't turn in on him (well not like we often see in F1), he started the gradual turning line. I think Crofty got it right, Lewis earned the space, Max has to leave room, he did, Lewis had a good half car width spare on his inner, he should have raced Max, kept inside him, but while he has spare room inside, he didn't use it. Max knew there was plenty of space so took the line he took,  which even then was gradual, leaving 1 1/2 car widths. So not like the usual racing line and push them to the gravel. To me its slam dunk against LH. Plenty of room was left, Max could have used the racing line but he gave room.

 

Thats how I see it.


tdgeek
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  #2746753 19-Jul-2021 16:50
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Edit that. There was one full car width inside LH just as they touched

 

I thought they both drive great under pressure though. Minor touched before the crash too. Im wondering if LH was trying to pass early on or not, maybe trying to stay close for the big opportunities in the long straight, maybe get a bonus mistake under pressure earlier. 


Benoire
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  #2746756 19-Jul-2021 17:03
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My key thoughts are:

 

  • It was a racing incident over all,
  • There was sufficient space on the outside of max for max to move away and concede,
  • Max wasn't so good on the run in to the corner, squeezing Lewis closer to the wall,
  • Lewis didn't hug the inside line and was some space he could have stuck to like he did with Leclerk later on,
  • but mostly what made it a racing incident was that Lewis wasn't attempting a lunge up the inside like I've seen Daniel Ricciardo and Max do in the past, i.e. last of the late brakers as they call it.

I was however expecting some form of penality given what happened in the previous few races with Norris and Perez.


Batman
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  #2746761 19-Jul-2021 17:22
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Benoire:

 

Did Lewis not ask after Max once in the pits?  Normally he is pretty good like that to find out, it may have been on audio slightly later on.. I think those with F1TV and more interest than me can find the radio logs for the race?

 

 

i think it's more an admission of guilt and afraid of repercussions rather than lack of concern but he generally isn't too nice toward his archrivals. remember nico. his best friend that he compartmentalised into an enemy. it's all a psychological battle thingy.


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
Benoire
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  #2746764 19-Jul-2021 17:31
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Batman:

 

i think it's more an admission of guilt and afraid of repercussions rather than lack of concern but he generally isn't too nice toward his archrivals. remember nico. his best friend that he compartmentalised into an enemy. it's all a psychological battle thingy.

 

 

Maybe I'm biased (I've followed Lewis since his carting days and watched him in F1 since 2007 in races live across europe before I emigrated here) but he's normally very fast on to the radio asking if the person is ok and shows genuine care imho but the race director didn't seem give much audio out at the time.


tdgeek
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  #2746793 19-Jul-2021 18:55
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Having watched all the red flag, when you see JB putting Hamilton at fault, thats quite a biggie. 

 

The talk in that period also mentioned they could both have left bit more room. When Max looked in his right mirror, which was highlighted, he moved left, giving two car widths, and thats not including the apex which is also available had Lewis passed. Lewis was steering right solidly, so the car was understeering, it was argued that he did not have control. Also that he went in fully aggressive (no issue with that) and committed to a turn he could not make. He had two car widths and the apex to fall back on. Max gave him a lot of room. Leading up to that turn Max squeezed him to the left, but left Lewis room against the wall. When lewis overlapped, Max created a lot of room. It makes it much clearer that he was at fault

 

Related point, the extent of the crash, and the damage and the injury or potential injury has no effect on the penalty. He caused the collision, it wasn't reckless or stupid, it was just his mistake not using a gap that was there under full control of the car, so basically not a serious error, and thus not a serious penalty.


tdgeek
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  #2746794 19-Jul-2021 18:58
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Not sure how much to take out of the race, for next time. He started 2nd, lost 10 seconds, and just beat a Ferrari, on paper that doesn't sound that good. Especially as in Q3 pace was very good. 


tdgeek
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  #2746796 19-Jul-2021 19:04
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Batman:

 

Benoire:

 

Did Lewis not ask after Max once in the pits?  Normally he is pretty good like that to find out, it may have been on audio slightly later on.. I think those with F1TV and more interest than me can find the radio logs for the race?

 

 

i think it's more an admission of guilt and afraid of repercussions rather than lack of concern but he generally isn't too nice toward his archrivals. remember nico. his best friend that he compartmentalised into an enemy. it's all a psychological battle thingy.

 

 

Can't agree there. Lewis and Nico was a different issue, he was too competitive. Re asking about Max, they all like each other (generally) they always respect each other, and accidents are a big deal.When he asked when in the red flag pits he sounded concerned, and the audio, like all car audio is delayed when we hear it.


Batman
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  #2746806 19-Jul-2021 20:10
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tdgeek:

 

Having watched all the red flag, when you see JB putting Hamilton at fault, thats quite a biggie. 

 

 

watched it again, i dont think either party was at fault. in slow mo yes you can analyze but in real time it looked fine. 

 

lewis was challenging the space trying to stop max turning but max was doing his thing and turned.

 

if you watch again lewis was alongside max at the end of the straight.

 

max didn't brake, he drove on and then turned, making lewis end up being behind at the moment of the crash.

 

 

 

 

 

agree with penalty for lewis because all season long when 2 cars touch going into the same space the car who is behind always gets a penalty it seems (unless they are in line)


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  #2746809 19-Jul-2021 20:21
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here it shows they were essentially level 0.1s before the crash

 

hence what happened next was a racing incident

 


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  #2746821 19-Jul-2021 20:32
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JB said Lewis didn't hit the apex of the corner therefore he is at fault

 

 

 

However, if you agree that both being essentially level there, that essentially means both had rights to the corner going into the corner.

 

hence both are right and both are wrong, though lewis rightfully gets a penalty as per JB

 

 


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  #2746827 19-Jul-2021 20:48
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they showed an interview with the steward - he explained both were both right and both wrong at the same time = racing incident

 

Damon Hill says lewis caused the incident and should be penalized, he should back off because of the nature of the high speed corner (same thing that c horner said but you can't take his word because he is RB boss, but d hill says the same thing)


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