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#2277640 16-Jul-2019 10:01

networkn:

There wasn't hell to pay (At least from an official standpoint), there was a massive amount of complaining by the press, and the fans, understandably, but the result stood and there were no consequences really of that.

Yea I can't understand why there wasn't any IRB consequences for the British and Irish Lions win that benefited the Home Nations combined team when the TMO intervened and was still wrong.

I furthermore can't understand why that's analogous to a World Cup at Lords with an English team in the final and the NZ team again being on the wrongside of numerous ultimately decisive wrong themes.

No common themes there, nope nope nope. And certainly totally surprising there were no consequences from the governing bodies that are effectively controlled by the beneficiaries of these mistakes.

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#2277646 16-Jul-2019 10:07

tdgeek:

End of the day, the spotlight on cricket matches will be permanently heightened from here on. So there is a benefit moving forward. And that match has been universally seen as that best ODI ever played, and we were in it (And I watched every minute, foregoing yesterdays sleep!)

Given the number of corruption charges laid, and the spotlight that should already be on cricket (as it is the Tour de France and Boxing) as a result, you'd have to draw 1 of 2 conclusions:

1) That the spotlight works, and it's a simple case of a series of human errors or errors of judgement

2) That the spotlight doesn't work at all, and then you can pretty much work yourself into a hot lather over corruption all the days long. At that point you can't trust any result and may as well support another sport instead.

The point remains, that they will NOT be overturning this result. England will not be sharing this trophy as dual winners, and honestly neither would we in the same situation.

People are going to need to adjust to the reality that we came an incredibly close second, in probably the most epic final ever and we can have another crack at it in 4 yars time.

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#2277647 16-Jul-2019 10:07

Moving along, my assessment of the Black Caps, is that while we batted poor, our bowling and fielding generally made up for that. Towards the end, Kanes ability to finally play hardball and squeeze the opposition helped us in the semi and final. If our batting was up to par then we could have done a lot more, but thats sport

Batting poor? Yes, IMHO. When openers fail every match thats less runs, but it also affects every other batter, they all have to tone down, and slow the RR, that really hurt us. We were lucky to reach the semis, we only got there due to the lop sided SL opening match that gave us a huge NRR. But, with that luck in our pocket we did the best we could thereafter, so great stuff.

I feel we grew. Right to the semis it was clear we are 5th, and distant from third, due to batting woes. But now, if we did this all over again, and with batting woes, we are right there. Plenty of potential ahead

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#2277649 16-Jul-2019 10:08

Our next Tui billboard?

England won the CWC2019 fair and square : Yeah right.

I do wonder if they feel a bit stink about it themselves knowing now that they won by mistake. Ben Stokes was apologetic, but I haven't seen a comment from him since the "it was a 5 not a 6" story broke.

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#2277650 16-Jul-2019 10:10

EXACLTY TDGeek, Im glad somebody gets it.

The fact is, the 3 umpires and the match referee did not over turn the score in which England based on the rules fell 1 run short. Thats not and if but or maybe its a fact. And they would most definitely have known by the end of the game.

Instead of showing duty of care, by giving the trophy to the actual winner, they decided to go down this archaic system, which has occured before and should have been changed long before a World Cup final. That issue is just disgraceful but not the point.

The point is NZ scored 1 more run than England and the umpires got the score wrong, which is in their duty of care to correct. They did not, so I believe NZ would have a strong case in court due to negligence and a lack of competency.

In rugby terms, if we scored a try and conversion to win it, but instead they give us 6 points, drawing the game and England win the rugby world cup at the end of over time based on how many line outs were won. Thats the level of stink we are talking about here. Facts and injustice two separate but both very wrong components. But the facts should have been used by members of the MCC, governing body of the cricket laws, which the 3 umpires and match referee are members of.

The ICC "No comment" is because they know the Umpires got the score wrong and they know they knew at the end of the match but did not adjust the score. For this reason people throw cheating around, because essentially whether deliberate or not, the referees gross negligence gave the wrong team the cup and Kane Williamson player of the series was just hush money (not that he would have known at the time).

tdgeek

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#2277652 16-Jul-2019 10:12

networkn:

tdgeek:

End of the day, the spotlight on cricket matches will be permanently heightened from here on. So there is a benefit moving forward. And that match has been universally seen as that best ODI ever played, and we were in it (And I watched every minute, foregoing yesterdays sleep!)

Given the number of corruption charges laid, and the spotlight that should already be on cricket (as it is the Tour de France and Boxing) as a result, you'd have to draw 1 of 2 conclusions:

1) That the spotlight works, and it's a simple case of a series of human errors or errors of judgement

2) That the spotlight doesn't work at all, and then you can pretty much work yourself into a hot lather over corruption all the days long. At that point you can't trust any result and may as well support another sport instead.

The point remains, that they will NOT be overturning this result. England will not be sharing this trophy as dual winners, and honestly neither would we in the same situation.

People are going to need to adjust to the reality that we came an incredibly close second, in probably the most epic final ever and we can have another crack at it in 4 yars time.

We are not talking about outward and overt corruption, but yeah, go on about that to marginalise people's comments

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TeaLeaf

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#2277654 16-Jul-2019 10:14

kiwifidget:

I do wonder if they feel a bit stink about it themselves knowing now that they won by mistake. Ben Stokes was apologetic, but I haven't seen a comment from him since the "it was a 5 not a 6" story broke.

Going by twitter apparently not, in fact they showed very little humility thinking they "won" the WC let alone the scores were wrong and they know it now but still are gloating. Stokes is on cloud 9, beating his country of birth, NZ, but wait Ben you big softy, you didnt beat NZ, your actions caused the cup to be given to the wrong team you big (id love to use the worst word possible right now)

You should be crying that your actions caused the wrong team to win.

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#2277655 16-Jul-2019 10:17

This thread has gone even more demented than it is normally.

England won the world cup. We lost. Get over it.

@Tealeaf, please stop calling people names. It's disgusting and against the FUG.

TeaLeaf

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#2277659 16-Jul-2019 10:23

networkn:

tdgeek:

End of the day, the spotlight on cricket matches will be permanently heightened from here on. So there is a benefit moving forward. And that match has been universally seen as that best ODI ever played, and we were in it (And I watched every minute, foregoing yesterdays sleep!)

People are going to need to adjust to the reality that we came an incredibly close second, in probably the most epic final ever and we can have another crack at it in 4 yars time.

But that isnt the reality and it should be corrected, otherwise the ICC looks even more corrupt. And even if they dont, its still not the reality. The reality is NZ won the first game by 1 run. Fact.

As for 4 years time, NZ will never get close to the WC again imo. Not in my life time and with the sport being dominated now by countries with 100 million people and it being the national sport in most of them, I doubt in history.

No Taylor, Guptil, Southee etc in 4 years time, likely more weak batsmen like Latham and Nicholls, who only know one way, block the ball or get out. At least Guptil went out swinging. This is again where the selector and Williamson got the team terribly wrong well before the WC. No other team takes their opening batsman and turns him into a Wicket keeper, what is the point or sense in that, if he is supposedly the 4th best batsman he should be opening with the 3rd best batsman. The keepers we have in NZ are plenty more capable of closing out games that Latham. Look at Blundells T20 average and SR, I think 25 at SR 120. We could have used that, along with Munro t20 skills at Avg 35 (extremely high for T20) at SR 160. Or even use our Test keeper for flap sake, who has record partnerships still unbroken, 1 with Mccullum was broken last season, but he still has another 2, is probaly NZ's 5th best batsman, averaging high 30s for a keeper is very high, Mccullum was averaging low to mid 20s before opening and giving up the gloves for example.

tdgeek

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#2277661 16-Jul-2019 10:26

TeaLeaf:

EXACLTY TDGeek, Im glad somebody gets it.

The fact is, the 3 umpires and the match referee did not over turn the score in which England based on the rules fell 1 run short. Thats not and if but or maybe its a fact. And they would most definitely have known by the end of the game.

Instead of showing duty of care, by giving the trophy to the actual winner, they decided to go down this archaic system, which has occured before and should have been changed long before a World Cup final. That issue is just disgraceful but not the point.

The point is NZ scored 1 more run than England and the umpires got the score wrong, which is in their duty of care to correct. They did not, so I believe NZ would have a strong case in court due to negligence and a lack of competency.

In rugby terms, if we scored a try and conversion to win it, but instead they give us 6 points, drawing the game and England win the rugby world cup at the end of over time based on how many line outs were won. Thats the level of stink we are talking about here. Facts and injustice two separate but both very wrong components. But the facts should have been used by members of the MCC, governing body of the cricket laws, which the 3 umpires and match referee are members of.

The ICC "No comment" is because they know the Umpires got the score wrong and they know they knew at the end of the match but did not adjust the score. For this reason people throw cheating around, because essentially whether deliberate or not, the referees gross negligence gave the wrong team the cup and Kane Williamson player of the series was just hush money (not that he would have known at the time).

They should admit that the call was incorrect, an incorrect score was awarded based on current rules, but as it was the 3rd last ball and not the last ball, we cannot overturn the result as we cannot guarantee what the end result would have been

If they said that then its plain to see where the game ended up, and why, and the merits of ENG and NZ in that result. Then its over

Then make the draw decider what the rest of the sport is, wickets, not what your eye colour is

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#2277663 16-Jul-2019 10:29

Handle9: This thread has gone even more demented than it is normally.

England won the world cup. We lost. Get over it.

@Tealeaf, please stop calling people names. It's disgusting and against the FUG.

Oh such a bad name, there corrected for you, I wouldnt want to upset you.

And you are calling us demented, so who is going against the FUG here now?

No Eng did not win the world cup, at best they drew, everybody concedes that in the least. They were handed the cup due to an archaic rule that has been used before in non international games which they have had plenty of time to ratify and fix.

But the point is, Eng fell 1 run short, and thats not debatable, its a fact.

Would the Refs get away with giving NZ 1 point for a conversion in a World CUp final?

So dont tell people to get over it just because you have no emotional investment in it, that is simply dismissing peoples right to be upset over gross negligence.

Dont reply unless you actually understand why people are so upset.

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TeaLeaf

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#2277664 16-Jul-2019 10:31

tdgeek:

They should admit that the call was incorrect, an incorrect score was awarded based on current rules, but as it was the 3rd last ball and not the last ball, we cannot overturn the result as we cannot guarantee what the end result would have been

If they said that then its plain to see where the game ended up, and why, and the merits of ENG and NZ in that result. Then its over

Then make the draw decider what the rest of the sport is, wickets, not what your eye colour is

Haha eye colour, haha, I like that one.

Again bang on, all people are looking for is a serious apology for lack of competence and gross negligence and Id also like to see the 4 officials suspended for 2 years etc.

Handle9

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#2277665 16-Jul-2019 10:38

TeaLeaf:
Handle9: This thread has gone even more demented than it is normally.

England won the world cup. We lost. Get over it.

@Tealeaf, please stop calling people names. It's disgusting and against the FUG.

Oh such a bad name, there corrected for you, I wouldnt want to upset you.

And you are calling us demented, so who is going against the FUG here now?

No Eng did not win the world cup, at best they drew, everybody concedes that in the least. They were handed the cup due to an archaic rule that has been used before in non international games which they have had plenty of time to ratify and fix.

But the point is, Eng fell 1 run short, and thats not debatable, its a fact.

Would the Refs get away with giving NZ 1 point for a conversion in a World CUp final?

So dont tell people to get over it just because you have no emotional investment in it, that is simply dismissing peoples right to be upset over gross negligence.

Dont reply unless you actually understand why people are so upset.

You clearly didn't read my post earlier about my reaction.

England won, that is not debatable. They won on the day. There were mistakes made by the umpires, there were way more by the players. No one did anything corrupt or underhanded.

New Zealand had opportunities to win the game after the overthrows but we weren't good enough on the day.

TeaLeaf

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#2277673 16-Jul-2019 10:59

Handle9:

You clearly didn't read my post earlier about my reaction.

England won, that is not debatable. They won on the day. There were mistakes made by the umpires, there were way more by the players. No one did anything corrupt or underhanded.

New Zealand had opportunities to win the game after the overthrows but we weren't good enough on the day.

Thanks for your opinion. I and many disagree with you. The ICC "No comment" is not about corruption, that is just what is being thrown about. To me its more about an apology for incompetency which did change the score. Its not the same as Taylor being given out in a Howler. Its like I said, giving NZ 1 point for a conversion. They know the rules, they didnt apply them. The least they could do is apologise for the mistake which directly impacted the score. That is what is upsetting people. Yes some throw corruption around which Is where I picked it up, but I dont believe this. I believe the umpires didnt want to over turn their mistake.

If it were India for sure the cup would be handed back over by now. So the least they can do is apologise to the small guy.

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#2277677 16-Jul-2019 11:08

Handle9: There were mistakes made by the umpires, there were way more by the players. No one did anything corrupt or underhanded.

New Zealand had opportunities to win the game after the overthrows but we weren't good enough on the day.

The mistakes New Zealand made did not affect the score being measured correctly.

The umpires did. If you can't see how that is different then I don't know what to tell you.

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