Another (2nd) 737 Max 8 crash

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#2516651 3-Jul-2020 10:20

From http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/pdf/statsum.pdf

All of 717, CRJ, A380, 787, 747-8, A350, A320NEO series have 0 hull loss (write-off) accidents. Of these, only the 717, CRJ, and 787 have over 1 million flights, so that make these 3 the safest aircraft (as of 18 months ago). Of these, only the 787 is long-haul and flies to NZ, AFAIK.

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#2516658 3-Jul-2020 10:34

Fred99:

More than 30% of civilian commercial pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses and are not fully qualified to fly passenger planes, the country’s aviation minster said on Wednesday.

Although not on their own site, There's plenty of shots of EASA sending out notification of suspension for a month while investigations take place. With PIA appealing.

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#2575578 28-Sep-2020 21:38

The 737 MAX is scheduled to be flown by FAA Administrator, Steve Dickson on Sept 30. Dickson flew the 737 NG for Delta prior to joining the FAA. He has undergone the same traning as Boeing has developed for all MAX pilots to go through.

This flight is in addition to the recertification flights that have taken place.

It's my guess Boeing are pretty confident with their "fixes" for this flight to be going ahead. I'd expect the MAX to have it's sign off before long.

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#2575615 28-Sep-2020 22:34

Presumably this is going to be damn near the most thoroughly tested and examined commerical passenger aircraft in existence, but I can't shake the feeling I'd never get on one by choice.

Other than the fact the A380's I have been on have all had terrible IFE, I do enjoy flying them, and the 787 is a magnificent aircraft.

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#2575714 29-Sep-2020 10:17

I think it's a pretty safe bet all the testing has been completed and the sign off is a done deal. It's my guess this flight is purely a PR flight both from Boeing's and the FAA's perspective.

I would have no problem stepping into the MAX as a passenger, it's the particular airline that I'd be much much more wary of.

I'd be feeling much happier if the same level of attention that has been focused on Boeing (and the FAA) had also been focused on the two airlines involved and a few other airlines around the planet. The Airbus crash in Pakistan being another case in point.

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#2575718 29-Sep-2020 10:26

I'd probably feel a lot happier flying if AirNZ pilots were in charge I guess.

Having said that, when this all got started, I was in Australia on holiday and spent time talking at length to a 737 pilot at the hotel we were staying at. He was US based and said he would put his family and himself on a MAX every day of the week without hesitation and that was before all of this. He insisted they were safe and it was a pilot/training issue. Obviously, multifactorial.

I am actually surprised no-one went to prison over this debacle, honestly.

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#2575739 29-Sep-2020 11:26

networkn:

I am actually surprised no-one went to prison over this debacle, honestly.

America today, as long as you are maximising shareholder return, you'll be ok.

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#2575741 29-Sep-2020 11:30

dafman:

networkn:

I am actually surprised no-one went to prison over this debacle, honestly.

America today, as long as you are maximising shareholder return, you'll be ok.

Perhaps surprised wasn't the right word. Seems like all over the world right now, accountability doesn't exist. It's certainly not limited to America or American politics.

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#2575749 29-Sep-2020 11:44

dafman:

networkn:

I am actually surprised no-one went to prison over this debacle, honestly.

America today, as long as you are maximising shareholder return, you'll be ok.

If you ask me, if anyone was to go to prison, there should be people in Indonesia and Ethiopia on that list. There's been very little focus on the short comings in these two countries that significantly contributed to these accidents.

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#2575755 29-Sep-2020 11:55

Technofreak:

If you ask me, if anyone was to go to prison, there should be people in Indonesia and Ethiopia on that list. There's been very little focus on the short comings in these two countries that significantly contributed to these accidents.

You don't think the Execs at Boeing have a case to answer?

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#2575762 29-Sep-2020 12:21

networkn:

Technofreak:

If you ask me, if anyone was to go to prison, there should be people in Indonesia and Ethiopia on that list. There's been very little focus on the short comings in these two countries that significantly contributed to these accidents.

You don't think the Execs at Boeing have a case to answer?

No, I'm not saying that. There may be a case there as well.

What I am saying is they have been a lot of calls for blood at Boeing when there are obvious major flaws elsewhere without any corresponding calls for accountability.

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#2575887 29-Sep-2020 14:53

Technofreak:

What I am saying is they have been a lot of calls for blood at Boeing when there are obvious major flaws elsewhere without any corresponding calls for accountability.

For me, I'm not sure that obvious major flaws elsewhere reach the same threshold as the company that built a plane without initially disclosing that it incorporated 'secret' software that automatically controlled flight behaviour; software that subsequently malfunctioned and was a contributing factor in two fatal accidents.

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#2575893 29-Sep-2020 14:56

dafman:

Technofreak:

What I am saying is they have been a lot of calls for blood at Boeing when there are obvious major flaws elsewhere without any corresponding calls for accountability.

For me, I'm not sure that obvious major flaws elsewhere reach the same threshold as the company that built a plane without initially disclosing that it incorporated 'secret' software that automatically controlled flight behaviour; software that subsequently malfunctioned and was a contributing factor in two fatal accidents.

Yup, that seems to be the bigger of the "crimes" to me. If the training required was mandatory and the "issues" were clearly disclosed and the incident was avoidable and was clear negligence, then each country will have punishments available to those airlines.

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#2576003 29-Sep-2020 17:57

Technofreak:
If you ask me, if anyone was to go to prison , there should be people in Indonesia and Ethiopia on that list. There's been very little focus on the short comings in these two countries that significantly contributed to these accidents.

Did people from Ethiopia and Indonesia break any local laws? And if so which people?

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#2576026 29-Sep-2020 18:43

Batman:
Technofreak:

If you ask me, if anyone was to go to prison , there should be people in Indonesia and Ethiopia on that list. There's been very little focus on the short comings in these two countries that significantly contributed to these accidents.

Did people from Ethiopia and Indonesia break any local laws? And if so which people?

There are some serious questions about maintenance/repairs conducted on the angle of attack sensors on the Lion Air aircraft.

In both accidents there are training/competency issues, most particularly in my mind with regards to the Ethiopian accident. I think there is no question that people in charge of pilot training and the oversight of that training didn't do their jobs to a standard that should have been expected. I think there is sufficient evidence for people to be brought to trial in both countries. That's not likely to happen due to the efforts that have been taken to shift all the blame onto Boeing.

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