NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3117103 17-Aug-2023 11:40

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I don't see how either is a solution. New Zealand used to be much more self-sufficient with a fraction of the population and without all the waste.

A simpler time I'd suggest. Taxes were higher too I assume. I know company tax was 45% in the past

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#3117117 17-Aug-2023 12:22

tdgeek:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

I don't see how either is a solution. New Zealand used to be much more self-sufficient with a fraction of the population and without all the waste.

A simpler time I'd suggest. Taxes were higher too I assume. I know company tax was 45% in the past

The world has changed. We used to make a lot of our consumer stuff here, things like TVs etc. Cars used to be assembled here. Products were easier to repair as they had more discrete components. This worked for us, being a small remote country.

A lot if stuff isn't easily or economically repairable anymore within New Zealand or is return to manufacturer.

The world works on mass production and a large consumer base. This doesn't really work for a small country at the end of the world.

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#3117122 17-Aug-2023 12:29

Those taxes were very useful in supporting SMP subsidies for Farmers, Sheep retention payouts and all.

Ok we have the whole of the Hydroelectric generation network and a few other minor things :-)

Many parts of New Zealand struggle along with infrastructure built in those times desperately needing update but lacking money to do so now?

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#3117127 17-Aug-2023 12:39

Technofreak:
The world has changed. We used to make a lot of our consumer stuff here, things like TVs etc. Cars used to be assembled here. Products were easier to repair as they had more discrete components. This worked for us, being a small remote country.

A lot if stuff isn't easily or economically repairable anymore within New Zealand or is return to manufacturer.

The world works on mass production and a large consumer base. This doesn't really work for a small country at the end of the world.

100%

Its great that Chinese goods are cheap, but we are exposed to their economy and exchange rates as just one but major issue

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#3117151 17-Aug-2023 13:08

Technofreak: The world has changed. We used to make a lot of our consumer stuff here, things like TVs etc. Cars used to be assembled here. Products were easier to repair as they had more discrete components. This worked for us, being a small remote country.

A lot if stuff isn't easily or economically repairable anymore within New Zealand or is return to manufacturer.

People are far too quick to blame economics. The underlying issues are social ones, dating back decades. Almost 40 years ago when I started primary school, I knew the standard of education I was receiving was sub-standard compared to that of my parents and grandparents. Discipline by that time was almost non-existent, with only one teacher (Mr Sharp) enforcing the 'old school' rule that socks must be kept up at all times. The situation has gone from bad to worse, and that was at a time when we still made televisions and assembled cars, and before the much-maligned policies of Rogernomics.

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#3117191 17-Aug-2023 14:38

Every cent of that GST free fruit and veges had better hit kiwis back pockets, they'll need it to pay for labours 12c/litre increase on fuel tax -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-unveils-20b-transport-plan-but-fuel-taxes-going-up-12-cents-to-pay-for-it/UB7WCXNOI5FTHLJLMLVXWH464U/

They've had more money to spend than any Government in history, yet their inept management of their own spending means they now need even more of our hard earned $.

Labours true colours shining through...

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#3117215 17-Aug-2023 15:23

The Government would pull from the general taxation pull, taking $2.9 billion, and the Climate Emergency Response Fund, to get $500 million, to fund the transport projects. The remainder, $3.1 billion, would come from a Crown loan.

Interesting they can use the Climate Emergency fund to build more roads?

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#3117221 17-Aug-2023 15:42

JPNZ:

The Government would pull from the general taxation pull, taking $2.9 billion, and the Climate Emergency Response Fund, to get $500 million, to fund the transport projects. The remainder, $3.1 billion, would come from a Crown loan.

Interesting they can use the Climate Emergency fund to build more roads?

Probably as its not a fund that is drawn upon on a regular basis. Like a long term rainy day fund, (pun not intended)

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#3117229 17-Aug-2023 16:19

They could argue that the damage from the cyclone qualifies it as part of the climate emergency, but I'd hazard a guess thats not what it was actually intended for.

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#3117305 17-Aug-2023 20:11

sen8or:

Every cent of that GST free fruit and veges had better hit kiwis back pockets, they'll need it to pay for labours 12c/litre increase on fuel tax -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-unveils-20b-transport-plan-but-fuel-taxes-going-up-12-cents-to-pay-for-it/UB7WCXNOI5FTHLJLMLVXWH464U/

They've had more money to spend than any Government in history, yet their inept management of their own spending means they now need even more of our hard earned $.

Labours true colours shining through...

I cant help wondering how much they have wasted on all the reviews and failed initiatives over the last 6 years. Maori health authority alone is 10's of millions then we have kiwibuild and many many more. They started out with such inspired belief but imo were grossly let down by underperforming Ministers.

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#3117390 18-Aug-2023 07:58

They were put in power in 2017 by a few factors -

1 - Ardern's fairy dust / star power. She came in over Andrew Little who was never going to lead labour even close to victory. She presented well and gained almost automatic support of 1/2 the population simply because she is a woman (if you doubt that, almost everytime someone was critical, the issue of her gender came up as a defense).

2 - No one in the media (or unfortunately in the National Govt either) took their policies to task (the 100,000 homes, the billion trees, light rail etc). All were good thinking well intentioned ideas, but none of them were remotely possible to achieve in anywhere near the timeframes that were being touted.

3 - They sold their soul to get into power with a 3b bribe to NZF by way of the Shane Jones spending fund.

Whilst their belief's were inspired and their soundbites played well, the party did then (and still does) lack the talent and/or capability to actually deliver. So much money wasted on consultants and working groups to come up with hair brained ideas that never saw the light of day (or never should have seen the light of day).

Their politics may be completely different, but in some ways, Ardern's labour party is really no different from Trump - full of bloated promises with no thought as to execution or consequences of their actions.

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#3117436 18-Aug-2023 10:06

sen8or:

They were put in power in 2017 by a few factors -

1 - Ardern's fairy dust / star power. She came in over Andrew Little who was never going to lead labour even close to victory. She presented well and gained almost automatic support of 1/2 the population simply because she is a woman (if you doubt that, almost everytime someone was critical, the issue of her gender came up as a defense).

What an obnoxious condescendingly patronising thing to say! The Taliban would approve.

Don't ever give a woman credit for anything. Ardern came in over Andrew Little because she was a consummate politician (also why she triumphed over Bill English), which is also why she went on to win the only absolute majority of any party since MMP. It has become trendy in certain circles to crap on her achievements and abilities but she remains one of the brighter stars of New Zealand politics.

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#3117439 18-Aug-2023 10:13

Rikkitic:

sen8or:

They were put in power in 2017 by a few factors -

1 - Ardern's fairy dust / star power. She came in over Andrew Little who was never going to lead labour even close to victory. She presented well and gained almost automatic support of 1/2 the population simply because she is a woman (if you doubt that, almost everytime someone was critical, the issue of her gender came up as a defense).

What an obnoxious condescendingly patronising thing to say! The Taliban would approve.

Don't ever give a woman credit for anything. Ardern came in over Andrew Little because she was a consummate politician (also why she triumphed over Bill English), which is also why she went on to win the only absolute majority of any party since MMP. It has become trendy in certain circles to crap on her achievements and abilities but she remains one of the brighter stars of New Zealand politics.

In some ways her emergence was similar to John Key. A breath of fresh air competing against a party that looked tired and who the voters had had enough of. Nothing to do with her being a woman.

GV27

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#3117449 18-Aug-2023 10:40

Rikkitic:

Don't ever give a woman credit for anything. Ardern came in over Andrew Little because she was a consummate politician (also why she triumphed over Bill English), which is also why she went on to win the only absolute majority of any party since MMP. It has become trendy in certain circles to crap on her achievements and abilities but she remains one of the brighter stars of New Zealand politics.

She didn't triumph over English. National got a higher party vote. Winston chose Labour instead. That is all JA's ascension to the 9th floor tilted on.

I think you're confusing 'basic scrutiny over the promises Labour made to get elected' for some sort of anti-government trend. No one held a gun to her head in 2017 and forced her to make a suite of outlandish policy announcements which she then sat back and watched her ministers bungle for close to five years with little to no repercussions.

If you can be one of this country's brightest stars despite an almost 100% failure rate on flagship policies then that says quite a bit about us as a country.

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#3117501 18-Aug-2023 11:05

GV27:

She didn't triumph over English. National got a higher party vote. Winston chose Labour instead. That is all JA's ascension to the 9th floor tilted on.

I think you're confusing 'basic scrutiny over the promises Labour made to get elected' for some sort of anti-government trend. No one held a gun to her head in 2017 and forced her to make a suite of outlandish policy announcements which she then sat back and watched her ministers bungle for close to five years with little to no repercussions.

If you can be one of this country's brightest stars despite an almost 100% failure rate on flagship policies then that says quite a bit about us as a country.

You are one of the more thoughtful conservatives here and I enjoy your posts, but your anger and contempt for Labour tend to overwhelm a lot of your comments. Ardern, with far less experience, matched or bettered the much more seasoned English in the debates. Without Ardern, Labour would have been trounced by National. With her, English could not win enough votes to form a government without Winston Peters support. All of this was a significant achievement for Ardern, a late arrival on the stage, since English would have been a shoo-in had she not emerged. She went on to win an absolute majority without Winston Peters help in the next election, which also says a lot.

I personally feel Ardern had back luck and was massively let down by some of her ministers, but of course it can be argued that was a failure on her part. I still believe she was an outstanding and inspirational leader, who was the subject of constant vicious attacks by those who simply could not countenance a capable female in charge.

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