Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#2926040 13-Jun-2022 13:46

JPNZ:

Have heard Faafoi maybe out of Cabinet as he's retiring at the next election?

That's an actual shame. Other than having too much on his plate, he is one of the few seemingly consistent performers in the Labour caucus.

elpenguino

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#2926054 13-Jun-2022 14:00

networkn:

elpenguino:

Changing the health system in such a major way is like turning round an aircraft carrier. Good on them for having the stones to do it - cos it was/is broke and needs fixing.

On the evidence to date of this Government delivering on big projects, you seem wildly over optimistic.

Saying you'll do something, isn't the same as doing it.

I've yet to see much positive feedback about the proposed 'fix'. The cost is going to be way way way more than they have projected, and the majority of the commentary I've seen about the likely outcome, is shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. It won't address the chronic understaffing, it won't address the big number of medical professionals who left in the past 12 months because immigration NZ wouldn't hurry through their applications, it seems unlikely to really address the amount of red tape (despite that being the supposed outcome).

I expect 3 Waters to be a similar disaster.

It's a major change to the system so I can see why you're apprehensive. Shall we keep things the way they are? No, because they need to be fixed.

Change is painful, I get that, and we saw how upset people got over the gun restrictions. But that situation has finally been changed for the better and the health system can be as well.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

networkn

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#2926064 13-Jun-2022 14:11

elpenguino:

It's a major change to the system so I can see why you're apprehensive. Shall we keep things the way they are? No, because they need to be fixed.

Change is painful, I get that, and we saw how upset people got over the gun restrictions. But that situation has finally been changed for the better and the health system can be as well.

I have no issue with change, and of course we shouldn't leave it in it's broken state. So long as it's a positive change, which leads to actual worthwhile measurable improvement, and is competently handled. My issue is with the plan, and the competence of the people who are supposed to be bringing it about.

I don't know too many people who opposed the gun buyback/changes, more about how much it cost, how it was done, and what the likely outcome is going to be. I still maintain we will have spent close to a Billion dollars and it won't stop the next lunatic from killing innocents. That money could have benefited many many people in more measurable and direct ways. Also, if our gun laws have improved so much over that time, how come there have been 23 driveby shootings in the past 13 days? I'd hardly be touting the success of our gun control right now.

GV27

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#2926071 13-Jun-2022 14:20

networkn:

I have no issue with change, and of course we shouldn't leave it in it's broken state. So long as it's a positive change, which leads to actual worthwhile measurable improvement, and is competently handled. My issue is with the plan, and the competence of the people who are supposed to be bringing it about.

My issue is the idea that one particular flavour of change i.e. centralisation seems to always be the answer while measurable metrics like ED waiting times or cancer treatment target windows get treated as inconveniences.

Change for the sake of change that you can't measure the effect of is arguably worse than no change at all.

networkn

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#2926074 13-Jun-2022 14:22

GV27:

My issue is the idea that one particular flavour of change i.e. centralisation seems to always be the answer while measurable metrics like ED waiting times or cancer treatment target windows get treated as inconveniences.

Agreed.

My concern is that the amount of effort and money to centralize will end up not being a good use of the resources and other things will get worse in the meantime.

Given the horrible state of primary care, one wonders how long before the Government (of whatever colour jersey) decides to run it themselves. In many ways, that would probably be something positive if done correctly.

Effectively right now, you have private businesses who are told how much they can charge, and for whom the Government can and does effectively control the workload and compensation for.

15-minute medicine is the only way to make money, but it doesn't really allow for the proper level of care, especially right now, when for the past 3 years people haven't been able to go and see their GP's as easily or readily, and that has caused significantly more complicated presentations.

It's not helped by the Labour Governments framing of GP's as rich and not very hard-working, and the average New Zealanders perception that medical care should be free, repeat visits should be covered, and that if they save up 15 months of ailments, the Doctor can attend to it all in a single appointment, all whilst complaining their doctors have long waiting room times!

As a side personal note.. If you go to your doctor and you think your list of things will take more than 15 minutes including taking appropriate notes, PLEASE book a double appointment. This is the fairest way to act for yourself, your fellow patients, and your Doctors. I can tell you from personal experience, that many many GP's are at breaking point, working exceptionally long hours and are exhausted and stressed out.

networkn

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#2926090 13-Jun-2022 14:52

Rikkitic:

My impression is that it is typical of every government to never admit that they are doing anything wrong, or less well than they ought to. Apart from that, I agree with your comments about Little. I have been wondering what value he adds for some time, and the Health Ministry doesn't exactly have a sterling record.

I think the way Labour does it is worse than even Helen Clarkes or John Keys Government.

Andrew Little (who was tipped in the press during his time as Labour leader as Angry Andrew) has a long history of outrightly attacking those who criticize him or his party.

It was jaw-dropping when JA appointed him, a long-time proponent of Unions, to Minister of Small Business. You'd be right in guessing that went precisely as well as you might have thought it would have.

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elpenguino

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#2926122 13-Jun-2022 15:27

networkn:

It's not helped by the Labour Governments framing of GP's as rich and not very hard-working,

Where did you get this idea? You'll have to provide some evidence for this claim.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

networkn

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#2926135 13-Jun-2022 16:03

I can't tell you how happy it makes me that Mallard will no longer be in Parliament, I literally can't think of a worse choice Labour could have made around who should have been house speaker.

I do wonder how much of his recent nonsense with the protesters was a contributing factor, despite JA's assertion that he retained her confidence.

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#2926137 13-Jun-2022 16:07

Despite never being a National voter, I actually thought Lockwood Smith was good in the Speaker role. Pity he moved on.

JaseNZ

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#2926165 13-Jun-2022 18:13

Would no surprise me if Mallard was told if you resign we will give you a cushy job in Europe.

I don't believe he was not pushed.

Shame about Kris Faafoi but he had indicated he was moving on and looked like he had been phoning it in for some time. Good for his family to spend more time with him though.

Should have dropped Poto Williams completely imo.

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elpenguino

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#2926167 13-Jun-2022 18:38

networkn:

I don't know too many people who opposed the gun buyback/changes, more about how much it cost, how it was done, and what the likely outcome is going to be. I still maintain we will have spent close to a Billion dollars and it won't stop the next lunatic from killing innocents. That money could have benefited many many people in more measurable and direct ways. Also, if our gun laws have improved so much over that time, how come there have been 23 driveby shootings in the past 13 days? I'd hardly be touting the success of our gun control right now.

The gun buy back won't stop drive by shootings, they can be done with a shotgun. The gun buy back wont stop a lunatic killing someone with a gun. The gun buy back will stop that lunatic getting a body count in the dozens. That makes the gun buy back a success.

The gun buy back improves the lives of everyone by freeing us from the modern scourge of massacres at the end of gun. That's a very direct benefit. Not every benefit can be measured - what price can you put on feeling safe?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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Technofreak

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#2926256 13-Jun-2022 21:14

All the feedback I've heard about the gun buy back is it was a joke. Pretty well only buying back guns from law abiding citizens who didn't need them anymore. It did nothing to remove the guns that can cause a problem. Basically politicians meddling in a process they didn't understand.

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quickymart

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#2926262 13-Jun-2022 21:40

Sweet, so what would be your solution then, if any?

elpenguino

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#2926265 13-Jun-2022 22:18

Technofreak: All the feedback I've heard about the gun buy back is it was a joke. Pretty well only buying back guns from law abiding citizens who didn't need them anymore. It did nothing to remove the guns that can cause a problem. Basically politicians meddling in a process they didn't understand.

"Pretty well only buying back guns from law abiding citizens who didn't need them anymore".

Yes, by definition a gun buy back buys guns from law abiding citizens.

Whether that person needs it anymore is not important.

There was also an amnesty which took guns from citizens who may or may not be law abiding. Over 5,000 guns were collected that way.

"It did nothing to remove the guns that can cause a problem".

Errr, yeah, it did. It took guns away from people and then those guns were destroyed. It's impossible to shoot someone with your gun when you don't have it anymore and when the barrel is in a U-bend.

"Basically politicians meddling in a process they didn't understand".

I don't know what you mean here.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Technofreak

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#2926267 13-Jun-2022 22:28

quickymart:

Sweet, so what would be your solution then, if any?

Actually put in place a gun/owner licensing system along the lines of what the police wanted before the current system was put in place.

Elpenguino

You missed my point.

Sure there are less guns in circulation but they came from people who weren't likely to cause a problemwith them.

I'm not a gun owner but I know gun owners who were very happy to get paid good money for guns they didn’t want anymore and these weren't military style guns we're talking about. The sentiment was the buy back won't stop guns from getting into the hands of those who will cause trouble with them but we're happy to take the money anyway.

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