Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Networkn
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#3025867 23-Jan-2023 16:46

quickymart:

Yep, this is something Hipkins won't be inheriting - I daresay we won't be seeing lockdowns again anytime soon. IMO they've served their purpose, we have a vaccine now (which we didn't in 2020) and 96%(?) of us are double vaccinated, so not much to be gained from a lockdown, and I don't think he'll be doing any while he's PM anyway.

Yes, Labour will be hoping against all hope that the decisions they made will be all forgotten because they have a new Leader. That doesn't seem reasonable. The Labour party is a group of people who make decisions and set policies. Hipkins was involved in that. He doesn't get to pretend that under him they would have done things differently/better. Also, reasonably voters should see that he won't magically fix what is broken inside the Labour party that has prevented them from delivering for 5+ years and continued to set themselves unreasonable goals and then get all slippery when asked why things weren't happening.

johno1234

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#3025868 23-Jan-2023 16:47

gzt:
JPNZ: Interesting that "co-governance" was widely spoken about this morning by Hipkins. As referenced by those posters above, 3 waters is dead and the RNZ merger goes along with it. The Maori caucus may be losing some power after all.

Do you have any links for that? I've missed it. A poster in the Ardern topic claimed three waters had "entrenched voting rights" a statement which is completely inaccurate at best. And I've heard random people say much worse than that..

Hipkins mentions co-governance:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/no-one-understands-what-that-means-chris-hipkins-on-co-governance/YMZHZEFWPVEBNCIS3MACXRHZZQ/

The short-lived entrenchment clause in 3W was limited to barring sales of water infrastructure. That in and of itself would be relatively harmless. The bigger issue was the use of entrenchment in non constitutional legislation and the sneaky concealment - in fact it was so well hidden (and only included in the second reading under urgency) that even Labour's parliamentary leaders appeared to not realise they'd voted it in.

networkn

Networkn
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#3025870 23-Jan-2023 16:50

Rikkitic:

Why are all the experts here, instead of in government?

If there is a change of Government, I can't wait to see you defend any 'mistakes' made by them as enthusiastically as you seem to defend *any* criticism of the current bunch.

If you feel like criticizing, you will I assume, instead, run for office.

tdgeek

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#3025874 23-Jan-2023 17:00

networkn:

If there is a change of Government, I can't wait to see you defend any 'mistakes' made by them as enthusiastically as you seem to defend *any* criticism of the current bunch.

It will be the same as now, but in reverse

networkn

Networkn
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#3025875 23-Jan-2023 17:03

How much Tax Payer money has been spent on 3 Waters and RNZ Merger? Now it's for the chop? I think both were deeply flawed policies to start with, showing a lack of understanding about management and unintended consequences. I really hope the general public doesn't just let the ongoing incompetence that saw these policies reach such an unpalatable state, get shoveled under the rug (again). Yet *another* 2 failed policies under Labour.

Before anyone bothers to try an angle of this, yes we need to sort our water supply issues out, and I support spending as much payer money as is necessary to do it properly, efficiently and long term.

tdgeek

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#3025879 23-Jan-2023 17:19

Well, soon, both parties can list their election policies, tangible policies, and the intended results. Both parties. Given that National is on the way up, Labour the way down, sudden PM resignation, National can show us how capable they are. Not being sarcastic either. But remember that they are bereft of talent and experience, the many campaigners from the Key/English days are gone. For them as well, they will have to deal with the ongoing global issues. They go away when they go away, not when NZ goes back to pre pandemic metrics while the rest of the world doesnt.

Rikkitic

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#3025881 23-Jan-2023 17:25

networkn:

If there is a change of Government, I can't wait to see you defend any 'mistakes' made by them as enthusiastically as you seem to defend *any* criticism of the current bunch.

If you feel like criticizing, you will I assume, instead, run for office.

Hell man, I'm even older than Biden. I barely have the energy to criticise you. Fortunately, you make an easy target.

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tdgeek

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#3025884 23-Jan-2023 17:40

End of the day Party A supporters bag B and praise A, and vice versa. Thats the nature of optical threads. Its easy for one to magnify issues and ignore positives, as it is for one to ignore negatives and magnify the positives. Human nature. Im not sure if and when we get a change in Government, that the new Opposition supporters are going to be aggressive or how the new Government supporters become defensive, be interesting to see. As long as both parties have tangible and not ideological policies, Im good with that. My personal opinion though is that the effect of the pandemic and war is largely ignored here. I recall "its all local inflation", walked back to mainly local inflation. Thats rubbish. Look everywhere else in the world, its a major factor. How we managed the pandemic financially is better than most, inflation is better than most, deaths per 1000 is better than the vast majority. How we bounced back is better than most.To me thats a fact not an option or dream. Is that defending the Realm? No, its just being realistic. All governments had little choice how to react. But NZ's performance was largely rubbish as expected apparently. The Key and Clarke days ignored investment in health, education and infrastructure, no matter who rules now, those issues are there. And thus, each budget the Government, whoever it is will be bagged for the issues we still have thats a fact of life here. Stuff wasnt attended to over time, it was left. Own a house that you ignore as it gradually falls apart? Same deal. One day you will be dealing with major issues, and its too expensive to fix it at once. Thats New Zealand in a nutshell.

gzt

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#3025887 23-Jan-2023 17:52

johno1234: Hipkins mentions co-governance:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/no-one-understands-what-that-means-chris-hipkins-on-co-governance/YMZHZEFWPVEBNCIS3MACXRHZZQ/

The short-lived entrenchment clause in 3W was limited to barring sales of water infrastructure. That in and of itself would be relatively harmless. The bigger issue was the use of entrenchment in non constitutional legislation and the sneaky concealment - in fact it was so well hidden (and only included in the second reading under urgency) that even Labour's parliamentary leaders appeared to not realise they'd voted it in.

I'm glad you're aware the entrenchment provision covered only privatisation and was removed. Personally I don't see evidence for sneaky concealment. That really is somewhat conspiracy minded and entirely imagining a motive. It's a short step from there to a lot of bunkum and nonsense about the Maori caucus in the labour party. It looks to me that the various people had a different understanding of the privatisation change required and that played out under urgency.

gzt

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#3025894 23-Jan-2023 18:12

JPNZ: Interesting that "co-governance" was widely spoken about this morning by Hipkins.

To clarify the timeline a bit your comment was posted today and the article you linked to was published yesterday.

networkn

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#3025900 23-Jan-2023 18:55

tdgeek:
It will be the same as now, but in reverse

Why? Those who support the current government have made excuse after excuse for their failings or as is much more common, just attacked those who have criticized. Surely all the same allowances should be made for everyone and the sentiment of 'well stuff happens' should be applied to whomever is in power? If National make up fairy tales and then can't or won't deliver we will hear about how it's ok because everyone stretches the truth it's expected, so as long as they are aspirational it's all good?

tdgeek

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#3025902 23-Jan-2023 19:05

networkn:Why? Those who support the current government have made excuse after excuse for their failings or as is much more common, just attacked those who have criticized. Surely all the same allowances should be made for everyone and the sentiment of 'well stuff happens' should be applied to whomever is in power? If National make up fairy tales and then can't or won't deliver we will hear about how it's ok because everyone stretches the truth it's expected, so as long as they are aspirational it's all good?

"just attacked those who have criticized."

The attacks have been daily here and not from the Centre-Left Criticism is fine, but hasnt been that common, its basically attack mode. Clearly my perception differs. Yes, I have seen some harsh bite backs from Labour people. But you seem to make out like its a solid adult discussion of criticism and that results in attacks. Not how I see it. At all.

I hope National doesn't make up fairy tales, as long as they give us tales to vote on. No ideology. Results based policies.

tdgeek

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#3025904 23-Jan-2023 19:13

Actually here is a case in point. When National makes their frequent blunders, leaders coming and going, tell the media some future policies then walk back on all of them , etc, its quiet here. Not many feel a need to get the knife out. When Labour does, the thread blows out, thats been very noticeable. it's just a different mindset. That one governs and one doesn't isn't the issue, both parties are part of our governing system, both are in the firing line. it's just a different mindset.

That is what I have seen over the years.

johno1234

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#3025905 23-Jan-2023 19:19

gzt:
johno1234: Hipkins mentions co-governance:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/no-one-understands-what-that-means-chris-hipkins-on-co-governance/YMZHZEFWPVEBNCIS3MACXRHZZQ/

The short-lived entrenchment clause in 3W was limited to barring sales of water infrastructure. That in and of itself would be relatively harmless. The bigger issue was the use of entrenchment in non constitutional legislation and the sneaky concealment - in fact it was so well hidden (and only included in the second reading under urgency) that even Labour's parliamentary leaders appeared to not realise they'd voted it in.

I'm glad you're aware the entrenchment provision covered only privatisation and was removed. Personally I don't see evidence for sneaky concealment. That really is somewhat conspiracy minded and entirely imagining a motive. It's a short step from there to a lot of bunkum and nonsense about the Maori caucus in the labour party. It looks to me that the various people had a different understanding of the privatisation change required and that played out under urgency.

Lots of people misunderstood which part was entrenched. But really, you don't find it sneaky that something as controversial as an entrenchment would be inserted ahead of the second reading, not debated, not subject to consideration by Select Committee and run through under urgency? Entrenchment of all things! It is a very very unusual and very very serious legislative move. Yet it seems that only Mahuta and Sage were aware of it. That must take some serious suspension of disbelief to swallow.

johno1234

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#3025906 23-Jan-2023 19:21

tdgeek:

Actually here is a case in point. When National makes their frequent blunders, leaders coming and going, tell the media some future policies then walk back on all of them , etc, its quiet here. Not many feel a need to get the knife out. When Labour does, the thread blows out, thats been very noticeable. it's just a different mindset. That one governs and one doesn't isn't the issue, both parties are part of our governing system, both are in the firing line. it's just a different mindset.

That is what I have seen over the years.

Well, that's subjective. I see it very much the other way round. Key's gaffes were in the news for month at a time.

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