Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#3007287 8-Dec-2022 11:25

networkn:

tdgeek:

Case in point. You have decided that your view is correct, and hence the irony is amazing. But your view is your opinion only

In any case I like you and her posts even if I don't always agree. As you say its HOW someone responded. But its also HOW someone percieved that response, maybe it hit a nerve, maybe the words were taken the wrong way if you looked at the context of the thread that led to the comment of interest. Maybe over thinking it. But its not easy with just words, if debaters here were in person, it would be no issue, im quite confident in saying that

I was referring to the fact you made reference to passive/aggressive whilst being passive-aggressive, either intentionally or unintentionally.

I am confident if you asked 10 people if having something they said as being characterized as 'slavering' was insulting, 10 would say it was. It was rude.

I was not 'foaming at the mouth' nor 'slavering'. I was making the point that the examples given were for assault, and apparent breach of sexual misconduct, but what I perceive as performance issues from ministers on an ongoing basis goes unpunished.

Labour could be making more progress on it's policies if it had a greater number of competent ministers, but whilst incompetent ones are leading the charge, the opportunities for others to step up is lost.

Do you feel Mallard should have kept his job after incorrectly accusing someone of rape? Do you think Helen Clark, John Key or Luxon would have allowed him to stay?

No comment on the squabble going on but with regards to the PM & Trevor Mallard I think it's clear there is a serious lack of capable MP's within Labour. Mallard was clearly unfit to be the speaker, his history until that point with regards to his behavior wasn't flash. How can you have the speaker, someone who is supposed to uphold the rules, without bias, having a history of physically assaulting another MP. It was really no suprise that he caused problems that cost the taxpayer a lot of money and also not surprising that he got a cushy job post parliament.

I have no doubt had Helen Clark or John Key (who I consider both good PM's) been at the helm over the past 5 years at least a few heads would have rolled.

tdgeek

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#3007290 8-Dec-2022 11:39

networkn:

Labour could be making more progress on it's policies if it had a greater number of competent ministers, but whilst incompetent ones are leading the charge, the opportunities for others to step up is lost.

Do you feel Mallard should have kept his job after incorrectly accusing someone of rape? Do you think Helen Clark, John Key or Luxon would have allowed him to stay?

Who knows. What I do know is that competency, honesty to the public, talking facts to the public is sadly missing in action from all parties. Its just a mish mash of nitpicking and clickbait across the board, the whole board

sir1963

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#3007291 8-Dec-2022 11:40

marmel:

No comment on the squabble going on but with regards to the PM & Trevor Mallard I think it's clear there is a serious lack of capable MP's within Labour. Mallard was clearly unfit to be the speaker, his history until that point with regards to his behavior wasn't flash. How can you have the speaker, someone who is supposed to uphold the rules, without bias, having a history of physically assaulting another MP. It was really no suprise that he caused problems that cost the taxpayer a lot of money and also not surprising that he got a cushy job post parliament.

I have no doubt had Helen Clark or John Key (who I consider both good PM's) been at the helm over the past 5 years at least a few heads would have rolled.

John "the pony tail puller" Key... ?

John "cup of tea tapes" Key who wasted significant police time until he was getting no more political millage out of it ?

John "There is no housing crisis" Key ?

Are we talking about the same one ?

marmel

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#3007292 8-Dec-2022 11:42

sir1963:

marmel:

No comment on the squabble going on but with regards to the PM & Trevor Mallard I think it's clear there is a serious lack of capable MP's within Labour. Mallard was clearly unfit to be the speaker, his history until that point with regards to his behavior wasn't flash. How can you have the speaker, someone who is supposed to uphold the rules, without bias, having a history of physically assaulting another MP. It was really no suprise that he caused problems that cost the taxpayer a lot of money and also not surprising that he got a cushy job post parliament.

I have no doubt had Helen Clark or John Key (who I consider both good PM's) been at the helm over the past 5 years at least a few heads would have rolled.

John "the pony tail puller" Key... ?

John "cup of tea tapes" Key who wasted significant police time until he was getting no more political millage out of it ?

John "There is no housing crisis" Key ?

Are we talking about the same one ?

Fairly silly comment, both Helen Clark and John Key are widely regarded as good PM's and both had very good support during their terms.

GV27

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#3007294 8-Dec-2022 11:43

sir1963:

John "the pony tail puller" Key... ?

John "cup of tea tapes" Key who wasted significant police time until he was getting no more political millage out of it ?

John "There is no housing crisis" Key ?

Are we talking about the same one ?

None of that is really relevant to his reputation for managing ministerial indiscretion but go off, I guess.

Both Clark and Key were regarded as formidable managers of people in the background and it is not bold to claim that Ardern has quite the opposite reputation.

GV27

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#3007295 8-Dec-2022 11:45

Good lord the Herald really doubling down on Mahuta like she represents a threat to our entire way of living.

How long until we have a colour-coded 'Mahuta Threat Level Indicator'?

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marmel

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#3007297 8-Dec-2022 11:47

GV27:

sir1963:

John "the pony tail puller" Key... ?

John "cup of tea tapes" Key who wasted significant police time until he was getting no more political millage out of it ?

John "There is no housing crisis" Key ?

Are we talking about the same one ?

None of that is really relevant to his reputation for managing ministerial indiscretion but go off, I guess.

Both Clark and Key were regarded as formidable managers of people in the background and it is not bold to claim that Ardern has quite the opposite reputation.

Helen Clark & Michael Cullen especially were a formidable team.

I think the current PM could have been a good PM as well if she simply had more experience in upper-level management and had more capable MP's to get things done.

sen8or

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#3007321 8-Dec-2022 12:56

The first 2 term Clark was a good leader, 3rd term, not so much. She had already left the building mentally before being ousted at the election.

Ardern has spent too much time in theoretical politics, working in the background on policies etc before and whilst in opposition. Being thrust into the limelight long before she was equipped. Same could probably be said for Luxton, he was brought into National as John Key Rev2, but he just isn't

GV27

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#3007334 8-Dec-2022 13:25

Three waters now passed into law.

Wonder if we'll now see some party whipping after the fact.

sir1963

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#3007337 8-Dec-2022 13:30

GV27:

Three waters now passed into law.

Wonder if we'll now see some party whipping after the fact.

Prediction:

The big centres with their higher number of consumers will be put at the head of the list for upgrades.

I.e small communities will pay for the big cities but miss out of their much needed work.

GV27

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#3007345 8-Dec-2022 13:39

sir1963:

I.e small communities will pay for the big cities but miss out of their much needed work.

Small centres barely have the population density to pay for much of anything for themselves, let alone subsidising anyone else.

It's more likely urban centres will end up spending huge amounts of money needed to support intensification in their own backyard on maintenance of rural networks.

Take Northland and Auckland. One a city with massive population pressure, the other is a huge sparsely populated predominantly rural area with a totally different climate, that spends months at a time either in drought or on the verge of it.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out who is likely to end up subsidising who here.

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tdgeek

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#3007352 8-Dec-2022 13:56

Are there open subsidies in Three Waters? I thought the local councils become shareholders of sorts?

GV27

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#3007366 8-Dec-2022 14:29

tdgeek:

Are there open subsidies in Three Waters? I thought the local councils become shareholders of sorts?

Of sorts. From memory the response to this criticism was that there would be a kind of share issued that didn't come with voting rights; a means of giving them a coupon to hold, but there was no power to it.

At any rate, the Auckland interests in the Northern entity were not pro-rata'd by the assets put in or the population - something like 90% of the assets but only 30% of the benefits from the new structure.

sir1963

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#3007395 8-Dec-2022 15:08

GV27:

sir1963:

I.e small communities will pay for the big cities but miss out of their much needed work.

Small centres barely have the population density to pay for much of anything for themselves, let alone subsidising anyone else.

It's more likely urban centres will end up spending huge amounts of money needed to support intensification in their own backyard on maintenance of rural networks.

Take Northland and Auckland. One a city with massive population pressure, the other is a huge sparsely populated predominantly rural area with a totally different climate, that spends months at a time either in drought or on the verge of it.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out who is likely to end up subsidising who here.

Lets count votes shall we....

Voters in Auckland vs voters in Northland.

Now its become a nationwide political tool, votes will matter to political parties.

Water for 1 Million people will always outrank water for 1000 people

Especially when political clout by the big cities is added into the mix

tdgeek

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#3007414 8-Dec-2022 15:35

GV27:

Of sorts. From memory the response to this criticism was that there would be a kind of share issued that didn't come with voting rights; a means of giving them a coupon to hold, but there was no power to it.

At any rate, the Auckland interests in the Northern entity were not pro-rata'd by the assets put in or the population - something like 90% of the assets but only 30% of the benefits from the new structure.

Ah, thanks for the update. I assume the standard functions will be bau, and "should" be better managed if there are more skills available. So, the upgrade scenario is big question mark. Wonder how my new ChCh Water Rates will go? We have plenty of water here, the rates are a rort

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