8" speakers or 6"? 5.2.1 system build

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bigfulla213

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#237877 21-Jun-2018 20:03

Building a new house and picked out Polk RC80i 8" ceiling speakers, 255C-RT centre speaker, RC85i 8" in wall speakers, and an OSD IWS-88 dual 8" in wall subwoofer. I am wanting to do a basic Dolby Atmos home theater set up. Lately I have been wondering whether the 8" speakers would be a bit of an overkill for the space, whether I should change them to 6" all round (except subwoofer). The lounge dimensions are 3800mm x 4800mm. Please see photos for layout. Have I got the heights fairly good as well or should I alter? Any tips or suggestions appreciated.

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#2042102 22-Jun-2018 07:04

It really depends what your use of the system is going to be - in my opinion if it's PURELY for movies 8" woofers on the fronts are a waste of time, you'd be better off putting in 6" fronts and upgrading the sub (bigger/more powerful and possibly even dual in-wall subs to get around typical room mode issues).

You'll be redirecting all the bottom end (most likely everything <60hz) to the sub(s), so the extra lf extension 8" drivers give you over 6" is wasted (yes, I know your amp/processor probably has options to NOT redirect the fronts, but you want to do it - more unifited soundstage and less load on your amp)

However, if you ALSO want to use the system for stereo music you probbly DON'T want to redirect the fronts (again unless you've spent serious $ on your sub to get one that actually performs decent on music as opposed to just typical movie LFE rumbles) - in which case 8" woofers on the fronts may be of benefit (depends both on the speaker specs and kind of music you listen to)

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#2042105 22-Jun-2018 07:18

eight eight eight eight!

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#2042108 22-Jun-2018 07:27

the size of the woofer does not equal quality, not even quantity!

i for one have a floor standing speaker that outputs more bass than my $600 sub, so the $600 sub got ditched!

bignose

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#2042109 22-Jun-2018 07:30

Other random thoughts - I'd think hard about maybe putting in front height speakers and moving the main fronts down a bit to be Atmos ready

Also from your picture it looks like you've got those fronts pushed hard out into the corners of the room - have you checked the angles relative to where you intend to have the main watching position, nothing ruins a soundstage more than speakers pushed too far apart (especially for music). Plus with them int the corners like that you're asking for all sorts of acoustic issues.

bignose

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#2042111 22-Jun-2018 07:40

Batman:
the size of the woofer does not equal quality, not even quantity!

i for one have a floor standing speaker that outputs more bass than my $600 sub, so the $600 sub got ditched!

Subs you get what you pay for - all comes down to engineering of the driver and size/quality of the amp.

I stupidly bought a cheap wharfedale sub once - looked big and impressive, was totally useless in terms of actual performance. It's the same as amps - there's there's good, and there's cheap, but you can't have both

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#2042126 22-Jun-2018 08:33

I have just installed 6" Polk in-ceiling speakers to achieve an Atmos setup. My room is multipurpose and so asthetics played a part in the decision to go 6" rather than 8". I'm glad I did because with six speakers in the ceiling are quite noticable and WAF matters!
Can't comment on the sound quality because they are only effect speakers, I have bookshelf speakers for fronts and centre. My wife keeps asking if they can be replaced with in-ceiling speakers (shudder), trying to explain about sound stages positioned correctly for the projector screen just gets a blank stare.

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#2042143 22-Jun-2018 09:06

Batman:

the size of the woofer does not equal quality, not even quantity!

that :-)

8" will be a waste of money unless its in a tuned enclosure
If you have a dedicated sub, you dont need 8's .
Also, true bass from a ceiling/wall mounted spkr would shake the crap out of your ceiling/wall.
Bigger is not better . Quality is better . Ceiling/in wall mount is a compromise , not quality .

The most important speaker for Home Theatre is the centre speaker. Spend up on the centre .
And I would go for a REAL sub, not in wall sub (if possible). Bass you can hear (sort of) or bass you can feel.

bignose

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#2042144 22-Jun-2018 09:14

And I would go for a REAL sub, not in wall sub (if possible). Bass you can hear (sort of) or bass you can feel.

also with a real sub you can move it around to tune the response at the main listening position - with an in-wall you get what you get and if your listening position happens to be at a re-inforcement or cancellation point too bad.

That's why I said the other option would be a PAIR of in wall subs as opposed to a twin - at least it the two subs are physically separated your markedly reduce your chances of any particular point in the room being suck-tastic in terms of bass response.

But like you say there's SO MANY compromises putting a speaker in to a wall cavity, and it's twice as bad doing it with a sub

jonathan18

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#2042145 22-Jun-2018 09:23

I'd agree with the many points made by bignose in those two earlier posts - seems like sound advice to me!

Agree re the potential that L&R are pushed out too far - are those shelves in between the TV and the L&R speakers? Is there any way of redesigning this so the speakers can be placed further in?

I note those speakers unsurprisingly (given the in-wall nature) have tweeters that can be swivelled, but are you sure that having the centre positioned that high (and also so out of horizontal alignment with LRs) will provide the best location? Personally, I'd look at placing the centre below the TV and relocating the sub. This may stuff things up I you're going for a symmetrical look, but that's a good opportunity to move to dual subs!

But if you did go dual, and put them directly below the current placement of the LRs means they'd be pretty close to the corners; unlike a standard sub, for which can be moved around to the degree of flexibility dictated by room layout, once you've got that sub in you're kinda stuck with it! What impact does placing in-wall subs in or near corners have? Another option, if you went dual, is to simply have them to the left and right of the centre.

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#2042180 22-Jun-2018 09:45

I have a 5.0 set up. Sounds as good as any cinema I've been to. The only thing missing is the big screen, which my 65" cannot compare. The only thing I wish I could do would be a 5.4 set up. But my wife, kids and the entire neighbourhood would kill me.

jonathan18

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#2042302 22-Jun-2018 10:48

Oh, is there an option of not even going with an in-wall sub? This is the one speaker I'd never think of compromising by putting in the wall, for the reasons other posts above have highlighted. I have a decently large SVS sub, and while it's not the prettiest thing I don't regret having it take up a decent amount of floor real estate - my wife gets to use it as a coffee table as it's on her side of the couch!

Or, if you do go the way of an in-wall sub, perhaps place another sub cable in an appropriate location within the wall space in case you end up being disappointed by the bass response. Or, alternatively, be a bit more flexible about the location of the in-wall sub, basing it on a theoretically acceptable location in terms of base response - based on the dimensions of the room and the likely location of seating. I'm assuming there's software or guidance that can help determine this on a theoretical level, given you're not able to try it out in practice. I'd suggest it doesn't have to go under the TV or even necessarily along the front wall. My (external) sub sits along side the couches as mentioned (so directly below the side surrounds), but there's no ability to detect its location aurally.

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bignose

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#2042309 22-Jun-2018 11:14

My (external) sub sits along side the couches as mentioned (so directly below the side surrounds), but there's no ability to detect its location aurally.

put a decent 8" (non ported) sub each end of the couch - then you have matching coffee tables! (though LF induced beer spillage during loudest bits of movies would be a worry)

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#2042336 22-Jun-2018 12:12

jonathan18:

Personally, I'd look at placing the centre below the TV and relocating the sub.

This, so much this.

The centre speaker is so important in home theatre.

Especially if you have kids and end up having to watch movies at a lower overall volume.

With inwalls I'd highly recommend a real mic calibration/optimisation capable receiver.

Real sub for the win, just make it a coffee table.

Risk of inwalls is you don't know how bass is going to affect the walls etc until after it's all in place.
You may end up needing to route lower frequencies to the sub anyway, even if the speakers should be capable of reproducing those frequencies.

Glad to see your TV is not mounted 2/3's way up the wall like a typical architect would do.
You watch and listen to movies sitting down on the couch, so base your heights around this.

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#2042375 22-Jun-2018 12:53

Pretty sure sub needs to be near some walls, not in the centre of the room ie coffee table

bignose

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#2042378 22-Jun-2018 13:09

Batman:

Pretty sure sub needs to be near some walls, not in the centre of the room ie coffee table

actually not the case at all - you'll get different room loading depending on whether you put it in a corner, against a wall or free standing - comes down to what works best for that specific sub and that specific room

dynaudio have an excellent explanation in their sub manual - look at page 26 : https://dynaudiodata.blob.core.windows.net/media/7132/dynaudio-sub-3-manual-en.pdf

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