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# 181271 8-Oct-2015 16:14
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It's no secret, I'm not a fan boy when it comes to Windows 8 / 8.1 or 10.   However I do try to maintain some level of dispassion when it comes to making choices for my clients. with that in mind I thought it might be worth while doing a joint SWOT  / Risk analysis for businesses wanting to move up from windows 7 to new OS on their desktop machines / laptops.

Here are the parameters - It's a risk  / benefit analysis. It's not what we do or don't like, it's what adds benefit or risk to a business.

I'm going to take the negative side - sticking with Win7 as I honestly cannot see the benefit in upgrading at present. I present my anterior aspect to the geekzone community, ready to be spanked, schooled and enlightened by those who think there is a benefit.  Who knows - hopefully I'll learn something. 

Risks:

1 - Security best practice says reduce / eliminate that which is not required. Metro screen and apps - hard to remove, most of them dont add benefit to a business and it adds a nother layer of securty requirements (e.g. a second IE engine, apps framework etc) 

2 - The jump from windows 2000 to WinXP added a lot of network traffic into the lan. The jump from XP to Win* / 10 adds even more. most of it is of no benefit but adds cost and slows down networks. 

3 - More network functionality exposed with little to no business benefit. Reduces security.

4 - Time loss / wastage: Adding links to social media does little to benefit business and a lot to adding to time wastage by employees.

5 - Metro Screen and lack of start screen / new start screen slows down multi tasking.

6 - Now more clicks to do the same tasks. The ribbon in Office has also added a gazillion clicks to our everyday lives.

7 - Subscription model / advertising. Intrusive, adds risk of information breach, time wasting, network hogging, adds security risks.

8 - Throwing away tested software nad introducing whole new code base adds in more risk in the short term - long term it is a better strategy - but not now.

9 - Tie in / buy in. options are becoming more limited with less vendor options. XP heralded the explosion of open source, innovation and diversity. windows Store, (and yes iTunes store, google store etc) reducing that innovation nad choice. 

10 - Central security and control of updates, log ins, security - all your eggs in one basket. Breached once - big damage. Security belongs in house - need to know for passwords, tokens etc.





nunz

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  # 1402530 8-Oct-2015 16:19
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First off - noone should be upgrading to 8 or 8.1 unless they are already mid migration, which is unlikely.

Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.

However - Windows 10 is here, it will come stock on all your new hardware - so you will be creating work by downgrading. You can go through the pain of compatibility review and skill updates now - or later.

However - a lot of your points are generalisations - "more network traffic on the lan" - like what? 

Are you judging from from the Enterprise release or Retail?
Have you read any of the enterprise deployment material?


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  # 1402663 8-Oct-2015 20:07
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Where is the SWOT analysis. This is all mumbo jumbo anecdotes. If you see no benefits of Windows 10 don't do anything. Security is the biggest game changer in Win10, and if you don't see it, take another look. Win7 is already in Extended Support.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1403491 10-Oct-2015 14:17
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nathan: Where is the SWOT analysis. This is all mumbo jumbo anecdotes. If you see no benefits of Windows 10 don't do anything. Security is the biggest game changer in Win10, and if you don't see it, take another look. Win7 is already in Extended Support.

Seriosuly - please keep it civil. I didn't insult you, feel free to extend me the same courtesy. 
PS - I cant see any anecdotes in my post.

an·ec·dote ˈanəkˌdōt/ noun noun: anecdote; plural noun: anecdotes

 

     

  1. a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person. "told anecdotes about his job" synonyms: story, tale, narrative, incident; More urban myth/legend; informalyarn "amusing anecdotes"

     

    • an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay. "his wife's death has long been the subject of rumor and anecdote"
    • the depiction of a minor narrative incident in a painting.

 


I'm asking if people can see benefits to a business . I am asking for people with a differnt opinion to tell me what Win 10 brings to the table as an OS for business use. Personally - I cannot see anything worthwhile changing since Win 7 / XP and a lot of negatives to do with productivity and network traffic.




nunz



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  # 1403502 10-Oct-2015 14:41
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wasabi2k: First off - noone should be upgrading to 8 or 8.1 unless they are already mid migration, which is unlikely.

Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.

However - Windows 10 is here, it will come stock on all your new hardware - so you will be creating work by downgrading. You can go through the pain of compatibility review and skill updates now - or later.

However - a lot of your points are generalisations - "more network traffic on the lan" - like what? 

Are you judging from from the Enterprise release or Retail?
Have you read any of the enterprise deployment material?




Network Traffic:
Peer to peer built in for updates etc. Less managed = more traffic or else or have to turn it off = extra management work

 

http://www.techkhoji.com/stop-windows-10-from-using-your-upload-bandwidth/

 

Apps - especially live tile apps - installed by default, hard to remove permanently.  - I've seen those chew through a lot of bandwidth.

Media sharing protocols - seem to be turned on by default and there are more and more of them.

Under Win2k Network protocols were NetBIOS, TCP, Printer Sharing protocols and not much else normally. DHCP, DNS,  and domain elevation / presencing  signals were most of the over head.

Win XP Added UPNP, QOS, BITS, WINS, Link Layer Topology adapters,  Lots more notification protocols and turned on a whole lot of signalling for various services. XP also got really started into everything as a service (SOA) , meaning the network protocols did a lot more work.

Win Vista / Win 7 All the above plus UPNP now on and required, Network Discovery Protocols working more often and harder, first round of apps (Side Bar)

Also Between WinPX and Win 7 Network Location Awareness, RPC, IPSec, Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service, Event Collectors, Event Reporters to MS, Auto updates, Trusted sites / Web Browser Safety protocols and lookups,  etc etc etc. All added to the over head. QOS also added to this and reduced available bandwidth.

Win 8 / 8.1 / X  - Apps, live tiles, more aggressive reporting back to MS of errors, auto checking for solutions, driver updates, solutions updates, advertising, JS and other apps talking on the network, more P2P, more social media inbuilt, more network based topology scanning, collecting and negotiating, more router advertising etc etc etc.

In general networking has got heavier at an OS level with stuff added on but mostly not removed.

Yes - more traffic is generated by more programs built using SOA, more use of SAAS, more inter communication apps, more databases etc etc - however at an OS level most of what we do hasn't changed much.
We share files, access files, log on, print, email, browse the web.   Nothing new here since Windows 3.1.1 but the OS has one heck of a lot more network overhead, most of it for entertainment purposes without adding business functionality.

I saw what happened to a Govt Dept network when they upgraded from 2K to XP. XP has nothing on X when it comes to network usage.










nunz

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  # 1404020 11-Oct-2015 21:47
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The govt network probably still had 10mbit segments
There should not have been much of an impact in real land.

Personally I see windows 10 as a loss of staff productivity over windows 7 - due to the extra flashy stuff that is suddenly in their face.
Thats basically it. I dont know of any common business software that is incompatible with either - unless its old winxp or earlier type stuff created in visual foxpro.




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  # 1404079 12-Oct-2015 05:59
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wasabi2k: First off - noone should be upgrading to 8 or 8.1 unless they are already mid migration, which is unlikely. 

My workplace (consists of lots of sites around the country) is rolling out Win8.1. Or at least was...It's currently halted due to having turned into a bit of a nightmare.

EDIT: Important to note, this is mostly hardware issues. Users at my particular workplace are adapting reasonably well to the schizophrenic interface, partly due to me producing easy to follow instructions aimed at directly at workplace requirements.

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  # 1404132 12-Oct-2015 09:49
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wasabi2k:
Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.




Yep, thats the answer :-)
Only real downside Ive seen so far is printer/outlook initially may not work : both very easy fixes
and If u/g from Win7, then staff training will be needed, that usually never happens .


Win10 is new & shiny some rush in to try it out (even on company PC's) or install it by accident on Win PC's
Win10 is here, cant avoid it forever , especially as PC's get replaced over time.

Skype , online music streaming etc are also P2P, as are some apps on the cheaper NAS's . So winupdates possibly being P2P is no biggie ,they are possibly ways to stop that.
Also, is Win10's small increase in network traffic really relevant in most office environments, compared to all the other traffic ?


 
 
 
 


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  # 1404172 12-Oct-2015 10:41
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nunz:
wasabi2k: First off - noone should be upgrading to 8 or 8.1 unless they are already mid migration, which is unlikely.

Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.

However - Windows 10 is here, it will come stock on all your new hardware - so you will be creating work by downgrading. You can go through the pain of compatibility review and skill updates now - or later.

However - a lot of your points are generalisations - "more network traffic on the lan" - like what? 

Are you judging from from the Enterprise release or Retail?
Have you read any of the enterprise deployment material?




Network Traffic:
Peer to peer built in for updates etc. Less managed = more traffic or else or have to turn it off = extra management work http://www.techkhoji.com/stop-windows-10-from-using-your-upload-bandwidth/

Apps - especially live tile apps - installed by default, hard to remove permanently.  - I've seen those chew through a lot of bandwidth.

Media sharing protocols - seem to be turned on by default and there are more and more of them.

Under Win2k Network protocols were NetBIOS, TCP, Printer Sharing protocols and not much else normally. DHCP, DNS,  and domain elevation / presencing  signals were most of the over head.

Win XP Added UPNP, QOS, BITS, WINS, Link Layer Topology adapters,  Lots more notification protocols and turned on a whole lot of signalling for various services. XP also got really started into everything as a service (SOA) , meaning the network protocols did a lot more work.

Win Vista / Win 7 All the above plus UPNP now on and required, Network Discovery Protocols working more often and harder, first round of apps (Side Bar)

Also Between WinPX and Win 7 Network Location Awareness, RPC, IPSec, Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service, Event Collectors, Event Reporters to MS, Auto updates, Trusted sites / Web Browser Safety protocols and lookups,  etc etc etc. All added to the over head. QOS also added to this and reduced available bandwidth.

Win 8 / 8.1 / X  - Apps, live tiles, more aggressive reporting back to MS of errors, auto checking for solutions, driver updates, solutions updates, advertising, JS and other apps talking on the network, more P2P, more social media inbuilt, more network based topology scanning, collecting and negotiating, more router advertising etc etc etc.

In general networking has got heavier at an OS level with stuff added on but mostly not removed.

Yes - more traffic is generated by more programs built using SOA, more use of SAAS, more inter communication apps, more databases etc etc - however at an OS level most of what we do hasn't changed much.
We share files, access files, log on, print, email, browse the web.   Nothing new here since Windows 3.1.1 but the OS has one heck of a lot more network overhead, most of it for entertainment purposes without adding business functionality.

I saw what happened to a Govt Dept network when they upgraded from 2K to XP. XP has nothing on X when it comes to network usage.


All of these things can be controlled or disabled and more to the point will make 0 difference to a half decent network. The majority of the new discovery stuff is local subnet only and is largely bog standard IPV6 and guess what - you'll have to learn it soon!

I don't agree with your concerns regarding being "heavy" on the network. The standard stack when Windows comes fresh is fine. Do the work and understand what you should be disabling for an enterprise deployment and do that. If your users are installing apps that come with Live Tiles that use a lot of traffic and you don't want that, then disable their ability to.

Any deployment should start with a limited pilot anyway to assess such an impact.

Regarding sharing files - CIFS/SMB has changed MASSIVELY since XP and is vastly more efficient with 7/2012.

The "good old days" were not good. Change is scary. New stuff isn't always better but give it a chance, do your research and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Most importantly, approach the topic with an open mind - not looking for reasons to justify negative opinions.

The biggest challenges with deploying Windows 10 are not going to be related to the network stack, it will be interface issues and app compatibility, neither of which are insurmountable as a lot of stuff that was updated for 8/8.1 works fine on 10.

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  # 1404184 12-Oct-2015 10:50
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It is hard to see why many people would upgrade to 8.1 when 10 is available, unless there is a known lack of suitable device drivers.

I have done the upgrade from 7 to 8.1 and then to 10 to see whether there are any advantages in staging the move. I didn't find any significant benefits so I'd now upgrade direct to 10.

Also if you're going to 8.1 or 10 from 32-bit Windows 7 and have 4GB or more of RAM then it is generally worthwhile taking the opportunity to do the clean install that is required to upgrade to 64-bit Windows. If I had less than 4GB RAM then I'd upgrade the RAM before upgrading Windows, otherwise I'd stick with what I had, 7 or even XP.

At home, I am using 64-bit versions of 7, 8.1 and 10. Usability, device integration and system security are enhanced with the newer versions even 8.1. They gave me more options for interaction even if I don't use many of them all the time because I mainly use desktop applications. I have the most commonly used applications on the task bar so I don't usually go near the start menu. If I do go to the start menu then it is fastest to use search by typing the part of the program name rather than hunt and peck with the mouse. From Windows 8 I started using the hot keys which had been around in Windows 7 but I'd never bothered to learn, e.g. Window+M to display the desktop with all application windows hidden.

I currently plan to keep the older versions of Windows for testing and support because I support a lot of people on older systems. But lately I'm beginning to think that I'm much better off upgrading them all to Windows 10, the improvement from 8.1 is notable and beneficial. The major reason not to would be lack of driver support but even my 2006 Windows 7 HP computer has most if not all the driver support I need to do so.



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  # 1404207 12-Oct-2015 11:14
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1101:
wasabi2k:
Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.




Yep, thats the answer :-)
Only real downside Ive seen so far is printer/outlook initially may not work : both very easy fixes
and If u/g from Win7, then staff training will be needed, that usually never happens .


Win10 is new & shiny some rush in to try it out (even on company PC's) or install it by accident on Win PC's
Win10 is here, cant avoid it forever , especially as PC's get replaced over time.

Skype , online music streaming etc are also P2P, as are some apps on the cheaper NAS's . So winupdates possibly being P2P is no biggie ,they are possibly ways to stop that.
Also, is Win10's small increase in network traffic really relevant in most office environments, compared to all the other traffic ?



1 - Every increase in traffic is important, when you roll it out to say 100 - 1000 people. Even 20-50 more people adding a few packets, here, a few packets there makes a difference.
2 - Security - There is nothing new in the upgrades that adds value. Rather the opposit.e

So far, I can see no one giving any upside to Windows 10 - other than it means you have made the jump (albeit while it is still as flakey as hades) , and my list of downsides still stands.






nunz



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  # 1404210 12-Oct-2015 11:15
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raytaylor: The govt network probably still had 10mbit segments
There should not have been much of an impact in real land.

Personally I see windows 10 as a loss of staff productivity over windows 7 - due to the extra flashy stuff that is suddenly in their face.
Thats basically it. I dont know of any common business software that is incompatible with either - unless its old winxp or earlier type stuff created in visual foxpro.


No - when you add extra traffic noise from 500 - 2000 users, it is a lot of noise.   UPNP for instance, networm mapping, more SOA based systems etc etc.






nunz



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  # 1404219 12-Oct-2015 11:28
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wasabi2k:
nunz:
wasabi2k: First off - noone should be upgrading to 8 or 8.1 unless they are already mid migration, which is unlikely.

Is there anything in Windows 10 that your customer actually wants or needs? If not, then I wouldn't upgrade.

However - Windows 10 is here, it will come stock on all your new hardware - so you will be creating work by downgrading. You can go through the pain of compatibility review and skill updates now - or later.

However - a lot of your points are generalisations - "more network traffic on the lan" - like what? 

Are you judging from from the Enterprise release or Retail?
Have you read any of the enterprise deployment material?




Network Traffic:
<snip> ....
s files, log on, print, email, browse the web.   Nothing new here since Windows 3.1.1 but the OS has one heck of a lot more network overhead, most of it for entertainment purposes without adding business functionality.

I saw what happened to a Govt Dept network when they upgraded from 2K to XP. XP has nothing on X when it comes to network usage.


All of these things can be controlled or disabled and more to the point will make 0 difference to a half decent network. The majority of the new discovery stuff is local subnet only and is largely bog standard IPV6 and guess what - you'll have to learn it soon!

I don't agree with your concerns regarding being "heavy" on the network. The standard stack when Windows comes fresh is fine. Do the work and understand what you should be disabling for an enterprise deployment and do that. If your users are installing apps that come with Live Tiles that use a lot of traffic and you don't want that, then disable their ability to.

Any deployment should start with a limited pilot anyway to assess such an impact.

Regarding sharing files - CIFS/SMB has changed MASSIVELY since XP and is vastly more efficient with 7/2012.

The "good old days" were not good. Change is scary. New stuff isn't always better but give it a chance, do your research and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Most importantly, approach the topic with an open mind - not looking for reasons to justify negative opinions.

The biggest challenges with deploying Windows 10 are not going to be related to the network stack, it will be interface issues and app compatibility, neither of which are insurmountable as a lot of stuff that was updated for 8/8.1 works fine on 10.


Yes - levels of efficiency have been achieved using SMB/ CIF, security added, more connectivity with a range of authentication tokens, better notification of file changes etc etc etc. I am not unaware of these things. I have worked with Linux, apple and Windows OS's from when they were all babys playing with DOS, Apple IIE and RC 0.3? Caldera Debian.

What hasn't changed is that the basic things users need are still pretty much the same. Filesharing, printing, authentication, email, web browsing and some DB connectivity. None of those are new and most of the emphasis on Win8 / 8.1 / X has been interface and social apps (as well as the new apps framework). 

Funnily enough some of the posts above show one of the major risks - training with a new 'schizophrenic' interface - which again adds nothing.  MS could actually take a leaf out of the NEW (see I'm not a luddite) Linux Mint interfaces where IMHO they have managed to add some creative differences AND add functionality - unlike WinX and Win 8 / 8.1

Again, the changes made suck from a security point of view, adds more management overhead and adds NOTHING to businesses as a benefit.   And that's my rub - all this change and nothing of real business value has been added. Not being rude but none of your points above gives any real benefit in changing to WinX for a business and if fact points out some of the downsides e.g. risk management around change , turning stuff off, cost of a new pilot  - all without any appreciable benefit.

This isn't a question about technology - this is a question about business risk   - and so far there is NO benefit to rolling out windows X for a business.

In 18 months time when they have matured the OS, updates etc there may be a benefit from a single stable code base that they will use going forward, much the same as OSX - but wait, didn't we have that before? Windows NT code base under pinning some of MS best and most stable OS? so nothing new there - just a new code base roll out similar to Windows NT. Pity about all the other crud strapped on so it can be friends with both Home users, Mobile OS, Social Media, XBox etc etc etc - Entertainment value not business value.






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  # 1404223 12-Oct-2015 11:32
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At the end of the day I stand by my original statement - if there is nothing in Windows 10 your clients want or need, then don't upgrade.

However, new hardware will come with 10, so you will have to spend the time downgrading. If you are deploying an SOE anyway, it doesn't matter as long as drivers are available. You will also find a lot of cool new devices (like the Surface Book) will require it to do all their cool stuff. But if you are just handling desktops and business laptops then who cares.

I think what I am having trouble with is your list of downsides aren't really accurate - and all of them can be addressed through customizing your SOE, group policy and other administrative controls. 0

There are new features in 10 (a quick google will find most of them) - Windows Hello (which is basically just Biometric Framework, the new version), Device Guard, better MDM, better Azure AD support, improvements to Bitlocker... but if you aren't interested in those then don't bother.

If you are happy with the status quo - stay with the status quo. 

edit: just read your reply.

If you are looking at this from a business decision PoV then I agree with you - there is no ROI or value in rolling out Windows 10 - unless you have a CIO dead set on new feature X (be it Windows Hello or whatever), or wanting to be a "leader" by rolling out the latest and greatest.




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  # 1404232 12-Oct-2015 11:46
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nunz: It's no secret, I'm not a fan boy when it comes to Windows 8 / 8.1 or 10.   However I do try to maintain some level of dispassion when it comes to making choices for my clients. with that in mind I thought it might be worth while doing a joint SWOT  / Risk analysis for businesses wanting to move up from windows 7 to new OS on their desktop machines / laptops.

Here are the parameters - It's a risk  / benefit analysis. It's not what we do or don't like, it's what adds benefit or risk to a business.

I'm going to take the negative side - sticking with Win7 as I honestly cannot see the benefit in upgrading at present. I present my anterior aspect to the geekzone community, ready to be spanked, schooled and enlightened by those who think there is a benefit.  Who knows - hopefully I'll learn something. 

Risks:
1 - Security best practice says reduce / eliminate that which is not required. Metro screen and apps - hard to remove, most of them dont add benefit to a business and it adds a nother layer of securty requirements (e.g. a second IE engine, apps framework etc) 
2 - The jump from windows 2000 to WinXP added a lot of network traffic into the lan. The jump from XP to Win* / 10 adds even more. most of it is of no benefit but adds cost and slows down networks. 
3 - More network functionality exposed with little to no business benefit. Reduces security.
4 - Time loss / wastage: Adding links to social media does little to benefit business and a lot to adding to time wastage by employees.
5 - Metro Screen and lack of start screen / new start screen slows down multi tasking.
6 - Now more clicks to do the same tasks. The ribbon in Office has also added a gazillion clicks to our everyday lives.
7 - Subscription model / advertising. Intrusive, adds risk of information breach, time wasting, network hogging, adds security risks.
8 - Throwing away tested software nad introducing whole new code base adds in more risk in the short term - long term it is a better strategy - but not now.
9 - Tie in / buy in. options are becoming more limited with less vendor options. XP heralded the explosion of open source, innovation and diversity. windows Store, (and yes iTunes store, google store etc) reducing that innovation nad choice. 
10 - Central security and control of updates, log ins, security - all your eggs in one basket. Breached once - big damage. Security belongs in house - need to know for passwords, tokens etc.


As someone that has done multiple migrations over the last 6-7 years with my most recent being an XP -> 8.1 migration here is my input

1) 95% of Windows 8.1 metro apps can be removed via a powershell command. Hit google for it. Our base 8.1 image was a capture of a machine that had this script run on it. Im not too sure about Windows 10 apps (will have an answer for this by the end of this year as we prepare our Windows 10 deployments).

2) The traffic will hardly saturate a 100Mb network let alone a 1Gb. If you are running Gb lans expect your traffic to jump from 0.5% to 0.6% average

3) Use group policies to lock it down. 95% of all functionality can be locked down via Group policy. The other 4% can probably be done via registry hacks.

4) Not too sure how this affects time wastage. If your staff are abusing social media sites already then technically the OS will speed up their abusing (and hopefully) get them back into doing real work. So you could argue this will actually increase staff productivity, not decrease it. If you really are worried about staff internet usage try looking into a proxy/web filtering service.

5) We use classic shell as a default install for our Windows 8.1 environment. 95% of our users experienced no issues when transitioning from the XP to 8.1 OS. The other 5% were natural complainers. It took about 2-3 weeks for them to get use to it. And this was an XP environment for the last 10 years.
If anything it increases the demand on IT support staff for that 2-3 weeks (our ticket numbers increased by about 10-20%) but after about a month it dropped back down to normal. Ultimately there was very little lost productivity across the board. 
For Windows 10 this argument is not applicable as the start menu is back again. Expect 1-2 weeks at most for users to get used to it before it becomes normal.

6) The clicks are exactly the same across all office products for 2007 and onwards. There is a massive jump between Office 2003 and 2007 in terms of location of items etc. But the UI for Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2016 are near identical. If your users are jumping from 2003 (which is already out of extended support) then you are running a security risk in your business. 

7) You can still get offline versions of products for Office. You need to see a volume license reseller. You can also buy subscription or perpetual licenses for all MS software which allows you to run the offline installers. 

8) This is called evolution. If you are really hung up on these outdated relics you are more than welcome to pay MS the $$$ to support it. If not get on board and upgrade. Each new OS brought something new to the table, and whilst some releases were poor (Vista and 8.0 in mind) it allowed MS to go back and fix those issues. Without Windows 2k we would not have had XP. Without Vista we would not have had Windows 7. And without 8.0 we would not have had 8.1 (which was great by the way).
Going forward Windows 10 is the last release of Windows (according to MS at least). Once you upgrade to windows 10 you will not have to upgrade to windows 11, 12 or 13 as the Windows 10 engine will be the same. It even has a LTSB release (ala Linux) where you can install that version of Windows 10 and know that updates will come every couple of years vs every couple of months (CB release).

9) The windows store can be disabled via Group Policy. This argument has 0 effect on the Windows OS as 99.99% of all software that was designed for windows 7 runs on windows 8/8.1 & 10. If you are comparing Itunes/Google Play stores to Windows that doesnt make sense. As the software designed for PC (an x86 or x64 environment) is not designed to run in an ios/android (arm) environment. If anything your statement proves the opposite. 95% of those apps in iTunes/play store are made by independent developers. Innovation has actually increased with the apple/google stores (Tinder, Uber, SnapChat, Angry birds, Flappy Bird etc). In fact Windows 10 store apps are designed to run on both the phone/tablet as well as the desktop.

10) - Im not too sure what argument you are trying to make here. If you are talking about comparing Office 365 to Office offline then this would make sense. If you are talking about Windows (7,8.1,10) then this doesnt make sense as the management of Windows is exactly the same. AD manages Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10 (and yes it manages all 4 at the same time). WSUS handles the updates (and yep it can handle managing all updates for all OS including servers). All major enterprise AV solutions usually have some form of central management (Symantec, MS, McAfee, AVG etc). Once again all of this (AD, WSUS, AV) is managed centrally and if you have your own technicians then it will be in house. The only time it isnt is if you outsource your IT (in which case its managed out of house).
If however you are talking about cloud based solutions (office 365, Azure etc) vs non cloud based solutions then your question needs to be directed to the specific application in mind. Otherwise it has no bearing on whether to update from Windows 7 to 8.1/10.

But yea as said in a previous post unless your business is currently mid 8.1 rollout, you are better diverting your time to Windows 10 testing/deployment. 10 is everything 8.1 is but with a start menu. If your current environment is stable and you dont need a particular feature in Windows 8.1/10 then you might as well stay where you are (Win 7 SP1 end of life is in 2020). If however you want to upgrade to a later OS (either because you have funds, or for a particular feature in the later OS) then the only reason you shouldnt is if you have a business critical application that does not work in the newer OS. 



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  # 1404233 12-Oct-2015 11:46
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wasabi2k: At the end of the day I stand by my original statement - if there is nothing in Windows 10 your clients want or need, then don't upgrade.

However, new hardware will come with 10, so you will have to spend the time downgrading. If you are deploying an SOE anyway, it doesn't matter as long as drivers are available. You will also find a lot of cool new devices (like the Surface Book) will require it to do all their cool stuff. But if you are just handling desktops and business laptops then who cares.

I think what I am having trouble with is your list of downsides aren't really accurate - and all of them can be addressed through customizing your SOE, group policy and other administrative controls. 0

There are new features in 10 (a quick google will find most of them) - Windows Hello (which is basically just Biometric Framework, the new version), Device Guard, better MDM, better Azure AD support, improvements to Bitlocker... but if you aren't interested in those then don't bother.

If you are happy with the status quo - stay with the status quo. 




THANK-YOU - FIRST PERSON TO GIVE BENEFITS TO BUSINESS.

1 - Bio Metric Framework.  - Benefit for business - thank you - better handling of new ways to authenticate using Bio Metrics.   While bioMetrics have been out for a while, adding better support for them is a good thing. can it be done with other drivers? Yes but tighter integration with OS for ease if implementation and effectiveness = good.
2 - Device Guard - Benefit for business - with a dark downside. It's Just more of the same old processes to stop malicious code using signing. That's both benefit and nuance as there are increasing complaints surrounding OS control of what should and shouldn't run as a form of censorship. Chrome Browser, Nortons Security and Microsoft pre Win X all getting complaints as it is stopping legitimate applications running - and raises the spectre of who controls the code signing? If it is Microsoft or other large companies like Apple with a vested interest - then that is a dark path to travel down .
3 - Improvements in Bitlocker - Benefit maybe- possibly getting those in windows 7 via updates. Using an Os to provide disk level security can be a good thing - tight integration, however having used / still using some of the other options prior to Bitlocker - am a bit ambiguous about that.  I would rather use a third party version because if MS screws up their security (not that they would ever do that of course) then that's everyone vulnerable where as using third party offer less chance of everyone getting hit and probably quicker deployment of patches.

MDM - no benefit to desktop users - in fact downside to desktop uses - code and processes that are not required for desktop / laptop = bloat and security issues.


I'll score you a 3.0  benefits for that list.  Those are actually things that business may benefit from - albeit with some cautions as noted above. However i will note it has very little benefit to the core functions of an everyday business user.








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