Awful events in Paris 2015-11-14

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#1429223 16-Nov-2015 20:52

sir1963:
DizzyD:
Oldmanakbar:

If the countries sharing information and going about airstrikes in the region already knew where these supposedly critical targets were, why were they not eliminated a long time ago? They obviously have the intelligence (satellites, drones etc) to know where everything not underground or in a cave is, and they definitely have the means to destroy them.

Now there is a reason to blast them.

Oldmanakbar:
I just don't get it. People go on about how there is no real target etc etc, but with ISIS there actually is. They have definable infrastructure that can be destroyed.
Destroying that definitely hurts them, they do not have unlimited resources. Not to mention putting the fear of god into anyone considering joining their insane cause is psychological warfare 101.

Everyone knows where all of their strongholds are. Time to take the gloves off maybe?

Yes, I am aware there are innocent civilians everywhere. Yes I am aware the situation is complex. But at some point in large scale conflict someone needs to weigh up short term pain for long term gain.

If it continues as it currently is the death toll will be even more nuts than it is now. Far far larger military conflicts have been launched for far less in the past, some of them recently.

Europe is in the cr@p. And there are no real solutions.
Taking out the enemy is no longer an option. Its against human rights to do so anymore. ISIS knows it, and they are using this as leverage for their own agenda and gain.
There is a good documentary on youtube called "With Open Gates". Go have a look at it and you will see what Europe is really up against.

What can they do? I don't know if this problem is really solvable in the short term. All I know is that Germany/France will no longer be the same places in 10-20 years from now. Europe really does need to act now. As a start, ban Sharia law and the practices of Islam.

Brutality has never worked.

And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

I wouldn't say it has never worked. The Romans kept it up for quite some while - 2000 years more or less in toto - all reinforced with the utmost brutality and slavery combined with incredible civilisation.

Bobdn

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#1429234 16-Nov-2015 21:07

gzt:
Bobdn: I thought this was an interesting article. How sad, as the writer points out, that "Paris is under curfew for the first time since the German occupation". Hard to believe.

http://www.steynonline.com/7293/the-barbarians-are-inside-and-there-are-no-gates

Similar with this reported by many mainstream news outlets. No curfew was proclaimed at all as far as I can see it was reported only in English language news.

Edit: my bold.

Thanks for clarifying.

gzt

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#1429241 16-Nov-2015 21:16

ISIS are a product of the unstable situation in Iraq and have taken advantage in other unstable areas like Syria by offering assistance to similar groups. The creation of an unstable situation in Libya created another group that asked to join.

Remarkably Isis did not and have never had the strength to cause this instability in any cases.

The isis strategy is to take full advantage of existing issues.

Rikkitic

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#1429273 16-Nov-2015 22:47

tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.

I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!

Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.

Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#1429282 16-Nov-2015 22:58

Fred99: I hate to bring up the subject again, but the French ambassador to USA had something to say about a sentiment also expressed by an (ex) GZ member on this thread:

Donald Trump is the creation of profit-driven sensationalist irresponsible commercial American mass media. He says a few outrageous things and they seize on that and turn him into a phenomenon. If they had any principles at all and just quit giving him oxygen, he would deflate back to the irrelevant clown he is. It is just another example of the Kardashian thing, someone with no particular talent or ability who is famous for being famous.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#1429299 16-Nov-2015 23:54

Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.

I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!

Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.

Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.

The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.

JWR

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#1429300 16-Nov-2015 23:57

Rikkitic:
Fred99: I hate to bring up the subject again, but the French ambassador to USA had something to say about a sentiment also expressed by an (ex) GZ member on this thread:

Donald Trump is the creation of profit-driven sensationalist irresponsible commercial American mass media. He says a few outrageous things and they seize on that and turn him into a phenomenon. If they had any principles at all and just quit giving him oxygen, he would deflate back to the irrelevant clown he is. It is just another example of the Kardashian thing, someone with no particular talent or ability who is famous for being famous.

If Donald Trump really posted this, then he must be delusional.

OK. I mean more supporting evidence for delusional.

Far more people have died in the US, this year, from gun deaths.

Count the number of times Obama has had to appear on TV to lament mass killings. It has to be one of the worst presidential jobs, especially when you can't do anything to fix the problem.

However, I am not sure Trump is even the craziest candidate.

The leading Republican, Ben Carson, apparently thinks the Egyptian pyramids were built by Joseph (the one in the bible) to store grain!

Given the design of the pyramids, that is idiotic.

Allegedly, he cites evidence from the alien conspiracy lot. But, dismisses their cause. We have God, we don't need aliens!

He also seems to take great pride in his 'redemption story' about trying to stab one of his friends over a trivial matter. But, 'saved' because a belt buckle deflected the blow. Oh glory, hallelujah!

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

JWR

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#1429302 17-Nov-2015 00:56

Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.

I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!

Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.

Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.

The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.

I noticed the mismatched /quote.

Was that intended to a quote from Churchill?

Regardless. that is the language of war and propaganda.

Dismiss all reason!

I don't think we are there yet.

The worst thing we could do now is marginalizing/attacking any minority in New Zealand.

I don't believe any religion. I think it is all made up by people.

But, I wouldn't put up with any attacks on religious people here.

Geektastic

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#1429319 17-Nov-2015 07:41

The sooner we treat religion as a mental illness instead of an actual thing, the faster Humanity will develop.

Believing in things for which not a shred of evidence exists, whatever form that takes, is not the action of a rational and sane mind.

Actually according such behavior rights in constitutions etc merely exacerbates the problem.

Fred99

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#1429374 17-Nov-2015 08:40

Geektastic: The sooner we treat religion as a mental illness instead of an actual thing, the faster Humanity will develop.

Believing in things for which not a shred of evidence exists, whatever form that takes, is not the action of a rational and sane mind.

Actually according such behavior rights in constitutions etc merely exacerbates the problem.

Theism isn't the problem - zealotry is.
Zealous "anything-ism" can and has got humanity into all kinds of trouble.

MikeB4

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#1429376 17-Nov-2015 08:42

Geektastic: The sooner we treat religion as a mental illness instead of an actual thing, the faster Humanity will develop.

Believing in things for which not a shred of evidence exists, whatever form that takes, is not the action of a rational and sane mind.

Actually according such behavior rights in constitutions etc merely exacerbates the problem.

I think unmolested and unmolested thought is better.

freitasm

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#1429399 17-Nov-2015 09:26

freitasm: Here's a great example on why "social media" is not always the best source of news: "One man’s hard lesson after the Eiffel Tower’s darkness was mistaken for a moving tribute"

Another example of "fake tweet" that people share, like, rinse, repeat:

No media has covered this, but R.I.P to all the people that lost their lives in Lebanon yesterday from Isis attacks pic.twitter.com/mZXUEcxDmR

— Jackjonestv (@jackjonestv) November 14, 2015

The photo is actually from NINE YEARS ago, 2006. People complaining the media did not give Beirut the same coverage as Paris is at minimum a falsehood. It's what people on "social media" didn't do with the coverage that is the problem.

The problem is the people but they try to shift the blame.

Fred99

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#1429400 17-Nov-2015 09:29

Interview with Mohamad Abdeslam, brother of the two terrorists Salah and Brahim:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/11999515/Brother-of-Paris-attack-terrorists-They-were-two-normal-brothers.html

"We are an open family who has never had a problem with the law. My parents are in shock from the tragedy. My two brothers are normal, I never noticed anything."

freitasm

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#1429410 17-Nov-2015 09:32

Fred99: Interview with Mohamad Abdeslam, brother of the two terrorists Salah and Brahim:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/11999515/Brother-of-Paris-attack-terrorists-They-were-two-normal-brothers.html

"We are an open family who has never had a problem with the law. My parents are in shock from the tragedy. My two brothers are normal, I never noticed anything."

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

Fred99

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#1429417 17-Nov-2015 09:38

freitasm:
Fred99: Interview with Mohamad Abdeslam, brother of the two terrorists Salah and Brahim:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/11999515/Brother-of-Paris-attack-terrorists-They-were-two-normal-brothers.html

"We are an open family who has never had a problem with the law. My parents are in shock from the tragedy. My two brothers are normal, I never noticed anything."

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

Did you watch it?
I tend to believe him - he's not giving away any sign I can see of being a liar. It's very hard for ordinary folks to blatantly lie on camera without it being obvious, unless they're psychopathic, or have been trained.

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