New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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#2611809 27-Nov-2020 14:14

frankv: For them, climate change has been going on for centuries. And, as climate change turns currently fertile and productive land into arid wasteland, it's going to be increasingly difficult to feed the masses.

So prior to the industrial revolution? (bolded quote above)

Wouldnt it be great if sun-Saharan people were able to build dams, and use fertiliser on fields tilled with diesel powered tractors instead of subsisting in energy and food poverty.

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frankv

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#2611844 27-Nov-2020 14:52

Dingbatt:

frankv: For them, climate change has been going on for centuries. And, as climate change turns currently fertile and productive land into arid wasteland, it's going to be increasingly difficult to feed the masses.

So prior to the industrial revolution? (bolded quote above)

Yes, prior to the Industrial revolution, but worse droughts since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahel_drought Climate change isn't just a modern problem. *Global* climate change is though. Paradoxically, the Sahel appears to be benefiting (more rainfall) from global climate change.

Geektastic

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#2611941 27-Nov-2020 16:36

MikeB4:
Dingbatt:

I’d like to add a No11 to Mike’s list.

11. Plant lots of magical money trees. Thereby being able to pay for everything and absorbing CO2 (assuming that species absorbs the aforementioned).

Forcing people to pay more is always a good solution. Especially for those who can least afford it. Most of the suggestions will increase cost or reduce income.

Drastic measures at the moment would be akin to throwing a person who is drowning, a sun umbrella. At least they won’t get sunburnt as their lungs fill with water.

We either do it or we selfishly hand future generations an absolute disaster. That's our choice.

Who handed us the disaster?

Geektastic

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#2611944 27-Nov-2020 16:38

MikeB4:
Dingbatt:

Opinion as fact.

We could build nuclear power stations.

Do you believe that climate change is opinion?

I believe it’s a natural phenomenon. If it wasn’t, we’d still be in the last ice age...

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#2611950 27-Nov-2020 16:58

Geektastic:

I believe it’s a natural phenomenon. If it wasn’t, we’d still be in the last ice age...

It is a natural phenomenon exacerbated by human activity. How hard is that to understand?

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#2611952 27-Nov-2020 17:10

Geektastic:

Who handed us the disaster?

We did and definitely not future generations

mattwnz

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#2611963 27-Nov-2020 17:16

So why haven't they declared a Housing Emergency as well?

NZ has a housing disaster, and huge inequity as a result. This is also tied to the environment.

IMO this is just a publicity stunt. Are they going to introduce new taxes to solve it, by adjusting the way NZers are taxed? No...because they promised no new taxes.

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MikeB4

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#2611964 27-Nov-2020 17:17

Geektastic:

I believe it’s a natural phenomenon. If it wasn’t, we’d still be in the last ice age...

Oceans full of plastic is not a natural phenomenon. Deforestation is not a natural phenomenon. Discharge of industrial waste in the land sea and air is not a natural phenomenon.

Granted the planet does go through periods of heating and cooling over long periods of time however the weight of scientific evidence shows that this disaster is not a natural phenomenon.

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#2611965 27-Nov-2020 17:21

mattwnz:

So why haven't they declared a Housing Emergency as well?

NZ has a housing disaster, and huge inequity as a result. This is also tied to the environment.

IMO this is just a publicity stunt. Are they going to introduce new taxes to solve it, by adjusting the way NZers are taxed? No...because they promised no new taxes.

This maybe seen as a publicity campaign to wake people the hell up. They have already said that we have a housing crisis but climate change and in particular rising sea levels and increasing incidents of severe weather events will make the housing shortage considerably worse.

Rikkitic

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#2611967 27-Nov-2020 17:24

mattwnz:

So why haven't they declared a Housing Emergency as well?

NZ has a housing disaster, and huge inequity as a result. This is also tied to the environment.

IMO this is just a publicity stunt. Are they going to introduce new taxes to solve it, by adjusting the way NZers are taxed? No...because they promised no new taxes.

'Grant Robertson's letter to Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr this week was clear evidence of the seriousness of the housing crisis - and the government's urgent need to deal with it or face the consequences at the next election.' - RNZ

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Zeon

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#2611970 27-Nov-2020 17:28

If we are serious about housing and the climate we shouldn't have tried to stop the Corona virus coming here. Great opportunity to take out some population which will help alleviate both problems....

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MikeB4

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#2611972 27-Nov-2020 17:30

Zeon:

If we are serious about housing and the climate we shouldn't have tried to stop the Corona virus coming here. Great opportunity to take out some population which will help alleviate both problems....

Given what is happening globally this comment is disgusting. Get real.

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#2611973 27-Nov-2020 17:37

MikeB4:
Geektastic:

Who handed us the disaster?

We did and definitely not future generations

We did? How did we hand it to ourselves?

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#2611982 27-Nov-2020 18:01

MikeB4:

Geektastic:

I believe it’s a natural phenomenon. If it wasn’t, we’d still be in the last ice age...

Oceans full of plastic is not a natural phenomenon. Deforestation is not a natural phenomenon. Discharge of industrial waste in the land sea and air is not a natural phenomenon.

Granted the planet does go through periods of heating and cooling over long periods of time however the weight of scientific evidence shows that this disaster is not a natural phenomenon.

So you are arguing that the man made pollution (ie something that doesn’t occur naturally) of our environment is the same as something that occurs naturally? Surely the two are unrelated, unless it is more important to be anti human.

I don’t see a disaster at the moment, I see people who have been terrified by apocryphal predictions that take the uppermost limits of modelling and portray them as a fait accompli, because milder ones don’t sell papers or attract funding. Apocalypse Never.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2611983 27-Nov-2020 18:01

Geektastic: We did? How did we hand it to ourselves?

Well if you don't believe the scientific conclusion - anthropogenic global warming - there's not much to say really. Except maybe fake news! Fake news! I'm the real president! : )

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