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#233388 14-Apr-2018 08:46
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I was watching the local NZ show "The Project."

The owner of "The Bach", a legal brothel was on the show. She also was included in a small piece in the New York Daily

I am the owner of The Bach (rhymes with “catch,”) an ethical escort agency in Whangarei, the northernmost city in New Zealand. I read with interest S.E. Cupp’s Nov. 30 column “Needed: #metoo, for prostitutes” and I’d like to clarify a few points.

The World Health Organization endorses the decriminalization of prostitution, not the legalization. These are two separate things. New Zealand is the only country in the world where sex work is decriminalized, meaning it is treated like any other profession and is not unduly regulated.

Since the 2003 Prostitution Reform Act, sex workers are empowered to call on the police for help, and officers are able to assist -- whether it’s escorting a client to an ATM to make sure he pays, or by taking a report of sexual harassment or assault.

The ladies who work for me are not exploited or exposed to violence. Rather, they are single mothers and young professionals, saving hundreds (and sometimes thousands!) of dollars a week for their future.

Does sex work cheapen sex? That’s a matter of opinion. But I’ll tell you what most of my ladies say to me, when they leave work with a smile and a fistful of cash: "I can’t believe I was doing this on Tinder for free!"


The owner complained on she can't advertise on WINZ, Seek or TradeMe.

She reports that Seek and Trademe want to remain family friendly.

Ironically "The Project" TV show with her interview reruns at 7:30 am, which is prime time for children, which is when I watched it.

Anyhow, regarding TradeMe and Seek, I can understand where they wouldn't want to advertise adult toys, such as dildos and vibrators, as it would be too easy for children to find.

However a career is usually an adult pursuit. Even the religious schooled 12 year old would know prostitution is the world's oldest profession.

There are 46 verses in the Bible regarding prostitution
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Prostitution

Perhaps Seek and Trademe should allow the career to be advertised in the jobs section? It strikes me as judgmental, and puritanical.

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  #1995893 14-Apr-2018 08:52
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Umm, trademe do sell those things, they are here on the site, you have to be logged in and click thru to confirm you really are over 18.

 

Im guessing that seek are just being prudes. Not sure why 46 verses in mythology has anything to do with it. Places shouldn't be letting that influence them.





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  #1995898 14-Apr-2018 09:08
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My point about Bible verses is that children know about prostitution.

I would be shocked if a 12 year went up to their parents, and said "Mommy, I just learned a new word on Trademe: prostitute. What does it mean?"

My secondary point is if TradeMe and Seek wants to be family friendly, even the religious texts aren't family friendly.



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  #1995899 14-Apr-2018 09:11
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Wow, I didn't know TradeMe had an adult section.

TradeMe has almost 6,000 ads for R-18 Adult items today.

That's almost the same number of pet cats advertised. (Please don't make the obvious joke.)

TradeMe's position on not advertising sex workers seems even more arbitrary, and hypocritical.


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  #1995917 14-Apr-2018 09:40
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There have been a few stories I've seen in the Australian media this week about backpage being siezed by the FBI. They did this last week after deeming that it enabled prostitution (which is illegal in the US) for and sex trafficking.

 

The problem is in Australia it apparently was the biggest site for sex workers, and of course prostitution is legal in Aussie like it is in NZ. Now the sex workers are complaining work is drying up and there is nowhere else they can post stuff because other sites won't allow posts either.

 

It's fascinating that in this day in age there can be such rules around things something that is totally legal, but it does show the problems when things aren't legal in countries like the US.

 

 


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  #1995920 14-Apr-2018 09:52
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I think all Backpage needed to do was not be headquartered in the USA. The company was incorporated in the Netherlands I think but they had their offices in the USA, I imagine they would have been fine if they ran the site from a country that has no issues with prostitution. Though I did see some worrying comments alleging they scrubbed certain keywords from ads posted to their site that may have been interpreted as disguising or enabling sex trafficking which is absolutely criminal. I have no idea if this was just in the USA or globally though.

 

I can't see why TM and Seek ban adult positions ads but maybe I can see why WINZ don't allow them: they generally handle clients who are quite vulnerable and perhaps this sort of work is not the best thing to push people towards when they are desperate.


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  #1995936 14-Apr-2018 10:24
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Mixed feelings here. Anglo cultures (like USA, Britain, us) tend to get ridiculously prudish and precious about anything related to sex. Europeans are generally much more normal. My first inclination is just to say 'grow up' and get over it. But sex trafficking is a real issue and the point made above about vulnerable WINZ clients is a reasonable one. Still, People are either adults when they turn 18 or they are not. Adults should be treated as such. That means also taking responsibility for themselves. I have no problem at all with adults who choose to earn a living from providing sexual services and I don't think Trade Me or Seek should either. Less certain about WINZ, though I don't see why jobs could not be publicised in a neutral way. But people really do need to grow up.

 

And any time I see anything with 'family values' or 'family friendly' in it, I get very wary. This is usually just code for repressive, hypocritical and cowardly. It always makes me think of Graham Capill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  #1995937 14-Apr-2018 10:29
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I've never heard of "Backpage.com" Reading articles it did sound like they dabbled in money laundering and enabled child prostitution.

My first thought is it's not really relevant to New Zealand / Australia.

However I guess I could see the point about unscrupulous Backpage.com specifically enabling adult sexworker trafficking from socially backward and sexually repressive countries: I'm looking at you USA.

"Backpage CEO Carl Ferrer pleads guilty in three USA states, agrees to testify against other website officials"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/04/13/backpage-ceo-carl-ferrer-pleads-guilty-in-three-states-agrees-to-testify-against-other-website-officials/

Admittadely, I don't know much about WINZ. I'm a bit pragmatic though. WINZ may "set off" conservatives, and possibly a portion of feminists.

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  #1995945 14-Apr-2018 10:49
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Ahh I hadn't read much about backpage in the last few days, I'd only seen the stories from Australian media earlier in the week. Makes it interesting when they plea bargain their way out of things to dob in others!

 

 


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  #1995981 14-Apr-2018 11:35
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Reading the thread title, I’m wondering if it would be OK for sex workers to advertise so long as they don’t talk about positions?




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  #1996004 14-Apr-2018 12:23
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You mean like cowgirl, spin cycle, David Copperfield, heir to the throne, pretzel, man's best friend, butter churner, ...

:)

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  #1996120 14-Apr-2018 16:04
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Rikkitic:

 

And any time I see anything with 'family values' or 'family friendly' in it, I get very wary. This is usually just code for repressive, hypocritical and cowardly. It always makes me think of Graham Capill.

 

 

or anything with family first in it.




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  #1996246 15-Apr-2018 04:22
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From Newshub today

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/04/northland-brothel-the-bach-denied-advertising-online.html

"A brothel in Whangarei called The Bach is struggling to find sex workers as they can't advertise online, despite being a legal legitimate business.

Seek and TradeMe won't allow the business to advertise saying they want their sites to be family friendly and not advertise adult services.

And a bid to have a vacancy add placed with WINZ was turned down as it was deemed 'unsuitable'.

So, how can you make sex sell if you're surrounded by haters?

The Bach Director Antonia Murphy says 'Our business is legal in New Zealand, completely legal, I think we should have the right to advertise'.

She says the jobs offer a going rate of at least $120 an hour, which was 'quite a high rate of pay in Northland'.

So what type of person is their perfect candidate?

Ms Murphy says her perfect candidate isn't a younger lady, but rather a older woman.

'The perfect candidate you would think the young woman but not always, ladies working for us age up to the age of 45, many of the client's like an older lady.

'Definitely a woman who is healthy, open minded about sex and drug free.'"



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  #1996247 15-Apr-2018 04:29
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From the NZ Herald
By: Corazon Miller

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11797730

Northland brothel bringing sex out of the shadows

Ivy-league educated, mother and published author opens a brothel in Whangarei

"More than a decade since controversial law reform, a brothel owner tells Corazon Miller her modern establishment is finally bringing prostitution out of shadows.

This was one of NZH Lifestyle's top stories for 2017

Dressed in trousers and a loose-fitting shirt, holding her baby to her breast, ­Antonia Murphy is a far cry from pop culture expectations of a brothel madam.

But the San Francisco-born and raised, Ivy League-educated mother is the madam of Whangarei's The Bach, an enterprise she's taking pains to describe as an ethical brothel.

'If you start by saying it's a ­brothel, in my experience people immediately start relating it to violence and gangs and drugs,' Murphy says.

'That's absolutely not what we are ­doing, so I start out by saying ethical.'

This means treating her workers with respect - providing them with condoms, briefing them on their legal rights, paying them at least $150 an hour - and there's free childcare on site.

'New Zealand seems way ahead of the curve in terms of decriminalisation and yet for some reason much of the sex industry is still bogged down in sort of shady working practices,' says Murphy.

'It's still not socially accepted and there is still a lot of judgment.'

A Columbia University graduate with a degree in European History and Comparative Politics, Murphy spent years travelling and doing odd jobs ­before embarking on a sailing adventure with her then husband, arriving here 10 years ago.

She is a published author who ­featured in the 2015 Auckland Writers Festival with her book Dirty Chick."


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  #1996255 15-Apr-2018 07:25
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If MSD agencies we're to promote sex industry jobs there would be a tsunami of righteous indication in the press, social media and forums including GZ.




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  #1996264 15-Apr-2018 08:18
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UHD:

 

I think all Backpage needed to do was not be headquartered in the USA.

 

 

*cough* KDC *cough*

 

Not being based in the US is not really a means of guaranteeing anything in regard to US laws on the internet


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