Will you buy iPhone 7 without the audio jack?

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#1629073 14-Sep-2016 09:07

I'm an android user, but have owned iphones in the past. Although I have no plans to switch back to iphone, I would happily do so if they put out a more compelling product offering than I currently have. With the removal of the 3.5mm jack, this will never be the case as long as other manufacturers include one. I am a big consumer of music and constantly have earbuds in when on the move.

While I don't disagree that the future may be wireless, we are not there yet. I use both wired and bluetooth earbuds/headphones and the wired are my preferred choice by a long shot. Having a 3.5mm jack doesn't preclude you from experiencing wireless listening, it just gives you an option to choose how you want to experience your music.

Apple say that the jack is past it's use by date. The reality is that, as it stands today, wired listening provides higher quality audio reproduction than wireless.

And, no, providing a dongle adapter is not the same thing as keeping the jack.

ps. And for those who say that bluetooth in cars is the obvious replacement for the AUX cable ... not everyone in NZ can afford a new(ish) car.

wscalioni

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Master Geek

#1629078 14-Sep-2016 09:18

dafman:

I'm an android user, but have owned iphones in the past. Although I have no plans to switch back to iphone, I would happily do so if they put out a more compelling product offering than I currently have. With the removal of the 3.5mm jack, this will never be the case as long as other manufacturers include one. I am a big consumer of music and constantly have earbuds in when on the move.

While I don't disagree that the future may be wireless, we are not there yet. I use both wired and bluetooth earbuds/headphones and the wired are my preferred choice by a long shot. Having a 3.5mm jack doesn't preclude you from experiencing wireless listening, it just gives you an option to choose how you want to experience your music.

Apple say that the jack is past it's use by date. The reality is that, as it stands today, wired listening provides higher quality audio reproduction than wireless.

And, no, providing a dongle adapter is not the same thing as keeping the jack.

ps. And for those who say that bluetooth in cars is the obvious replacement for the AUX cable ... not everyone in NZ can afford a new(ish) car.

It's actually not all about wireless. If you want higher quality (I agree wired > wireless) you should be after a digital connector (lightning, for instance) rather than a 3.5mm jack which is not as good as digital. There's a reason why headphones used in desktops are better with USB connectors rather than 3.5mm jack. In desktops we've moved from analog to digital, that shift makes sense in mobile as well.

Anyway, there's a design flaw in this new model which is the fact you HAVE TO trade off, charging or listening. That is terrible and could be easily solved with a clever charger cable that would be plugged in the iPhone and allow another lightning cable (earphones) to be connected on top of it.

geocom

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#1629158 14-Sep-2016 10:49

wscalioni:

It's actually not all about wireless. If you want higher quality (I agree wired > wireless) you should be after a digital connector (lightning, for instance) rather than a 3.5mm jack which is not as good as digital. There's a reason why headphones used in desktops are better with USB connectors rather than 3.5mm jack. In desktops we've moved from analog to digital, that shift makes sense in mobile as well.

At some point you have to convert the digital signal to analog. While yes you can get better DAC's these are usually expensive and large, hardly something you will carry around with you. I don't know of any good ones that are being built into the headphones(Which would actually lower the amount of analog wiring) at best they are about the same if not worse than the DAC built into the iPhone.

Then you pipe compressed audio through it which has more to do with the quality of the audio than the DAC.

Geoff E

wscalioni

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Master Geek

#1629181 14-Sep-2016 11:44

geocom:

At some point you have to convert the digital signal to analog. While yes you can get better DAC's these are usually expensive and large, hardly something you will carry around with you. I don't know of any good ones that are being built into the headphones(Which would actually lower the amount of analog wiring) at best they are about the same if not worse than the DAC built into the iPhone.

Then you pipe compressed audio through it which has more to do with the quality of the audio than the DAC.

We could say the same about retina display a few years ago. I heard many people saying "retina is never coming to iPad or (worse) Macbooks and iMacs because it's just too expensive, too much, etc, etc, it's only possible on the iPhone because the screen is not too big". They are on the iPads for a while now and the 5K iMac screen is pretty awesome. Btw, also some Android phones have better screen than iPhones currently.

When you say the better DAC's "are usually expensive and large", they will get smaller and more efficient, but the shift has to happen in order to justify the development and improvement of the technology, as everything else in this space...

dafman

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#1630182 14-Sep-2016 12:31

Is this progress?

geocom

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#1630185 14-Sep-2016 12:39

wscalioni:

We could say the same about retina display a few years ago. I heard many people saying "retina is never coming to iPad or (worse) Macbooks and iMacs because it's just too expensive, too much, etc, etc, it's only possible on the iPhone because the screen is not too big". They are on the iPads for a while now and the 5K iMac screen is pretty awesome. Btw, also some Android phones have better screen than iPhones currently.

When you say the better DAC's "are usually expensive and large", they will get smaller and more efficient, but the shift has to happen in order to justify the development and improvement of the technology, as everything else in this space...

I dont forsee it ever becoming cost effective. The economies of scale just don't work out. 99.9% of people will just not notice any difference. There has been more than enough time with digital outs being included in devices(well before USB). If it was going to have happened it would have done so by now after all you have 2 signals for audio a 1080p screen has 6,220,800

Geoff E

wscalioni

73 posts

Master Geek

#1630188 14-Sep-2016 12:42

dafman:

Is this progress?

Nope. That's just denial.

Progress is to have digital audio available and manufacturers offering Android and iOS versions of their headphones just like they do with their current (3.5mm jack) models. The beauty of competition.

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shk292

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#1630192 14-Sep-2016 12:51

wscalioni:

Nope. That's just denial.

Progress is to have digital audio available and manufacturers offering Android and iOS versions of their headphones just like they do with their current (3.5mm jack) models. The beauty of competition.

So, we should spend several hundred bucks on a nice set of headphones and then throw them away if we change between iOS and Android. Perhaps a third standard for Windows? And then carry another set to use on the plane, which has an analogue interface. It's almost like Apple want to lock you into their proprietary "standard", but I find that hard to believe /sarc

There's also the small matter of DRM - impossible to enforce when an analogue interface exists, but somewhat more feasible once we've all switched to proprietary digital interfaces

wscalioni

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Master Geek

#1630210 14-Sep-2016 13:20

shk292:

So, we should spend several hundred bucks on a nice set of headphones and then throw them away if we change between iOS and Android. Perhaps a third standard for Windows? And then carry another set to use on the plane, which has an analogue interface. It's almost like Apple want to lock you into their proprietary "standard", but I find that hard to believe /sarc

There's also the small matter of DRM - impossible to enforce when an analogue interface exists, but somewhat more feasible once we've all switched to proprietary digital interfaces

We should spend several hundred bucks in things we believe deserve our bucks, either analog $10 dollars headphones, iPhone, or Tesla cars. Apple will do whatever they believe they must do regardless of the cry of the crowd.

I can only embrace or turn my back and buy something else instead of an iPhone 7.

I find funny people that want the iPhone 7... but with the 3.5mm jack... I'd say watch Frozen... and sing along. :)

shk292

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#1630218 14-Sep-2016 13:25

wscalioni:

We should spend several hundred bucks in things we believe deserve our bucks, either analog $10 dollars headphones, iPhone, or Tesla cars. Apple will do whatever they believe they must do regardless of the cry of the crowd.

I can only embrace or turn my back and buy something else instead of an iPhone 7.

I find funny people that want the iPhone 7... but with the 3.5mm jack... I'd say watch Frozen... and sing along. :)

I'm afraid I don't follow your train of thought, but never mind.

My points were more generic about the problems with proprietary standards and brand lock-in than any specific problem with Apple (or Tesla??)

wscalioni

73 posts

Master Geek

#1630222 14-Sep-2016 13:31

shk292:

I'm afraid I don't follow your train of thought, but never mind.

My points were more generic about the problems with proprietary standards and brand lock-in than any specific problem with Apple (or Tesla??)

No problem.

Apple never tried to hide they want to lock people in (FireWire, Thunderbolt, iMessage, FaceTime, etc) and the headphone connection is not different now, I agree.

geocom

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#1630230 14-Sep-2016 13:39

wscalioni:

No problem.

Apple never tried to hide they want to lock people in (FireWire, Thunderbolt, iMessage, FaceTime, etc) and the headphone connection is not different now, I agree.

Um thunderbolt was designed by Intel and is available on windows computers.

Firewire was designed by Apple but was part of the IEEE standard and has been used by other companies.

Geoff E

mattwnz

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#1630245 14-Sep-2016 13:52

dafman:

Is this progress?

I doubt you will need to do that with the iphone 8, as it will likely have wireless charging. But that will need to be the setup in many cars that need to use audio out with the 7.

I got an email from sony playing on the fact that the iphone 7 has no headphone jack, and it showed all their bluetooth earphones. But they are pricey. I don't pay more than $50 for earphones, (current ones are sony and they are the best I have ever had), but they only last about 6 months, as they are a consumable. Even some expensive apple one I purchased only lasted 6 month before the rubber on the wires went sticky. When you are paying close to $300 for a reasonable pair, they should last many years, but I can't see them lasting that long. Will be interesting to see how people get on with them.

wscalioni

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Master Geek

#1630279 14-Sep-2016 14:38

geocom:

Um thunderbolt was designed by Intel and is available on windows computers.

Firewire was designed by Apple but was part of the IEEE standard and has been used by other companies.

True, and it took about 5 years until we see Thunderbolt in PC's.

True again, and what's your point? It was never available in PC's.

geocom

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#1630303 14-Sep-2016 15:18

wscalioni:

True, and it took about 5 years until we see Thunderbolt in PC's.

True again, and what's your point? It was never available in PC's.

It never took 5 years I have a pc at the moment that is about 3 years old that includes it and I did not adopt it early.

Firewire was I had PC's that with PCI cards in them and even some motherboards that included a Firewire port.

So your examples to do with hardware they in no way show that apple where trying to lock people in. If you where to give a valid example of apple choosing a propriety connector then maybe. MagSafe or 30Pin for example but its such a weak way of showing it as even a barrel plug has so many different possible voltages that could be run through it that you really need to match a power supply to your computer anyway. and every 30pin device had a 3.5mm plug

Geoff E

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